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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 16:20:55 GMT -5
Kevin, I will certainly provide you "documented proof" on this topic.Please show clear documented proof that the PS took part on this 1st claim about Sakay and his followers by your recklessly claims. The fact that you made this quick, extensive, and specific list of names that were the work of the PS and yet you do not have the proof about one example SAKAY right now? And have to take time to make a research shows your reckless claim was exagerrated! Philip Woo your horses there. First of all, my research is DIRECTLY from the Annual War Reports and the Annual Philippine Commission Reports!!! From 1899 to 1908. YES I DO HAVE ALL OF THEM! AND YES THEY ALL REPORT THE PS WERE USED TO PURSUE, CAPTURE, AND KILL!...and more specifically Sakay and his band of men. I ask for time because these reports can very from 400 to 1000 pages each...with each year having SEVERAL volumes. You can not give me that? I wanted to go over this "in detail" as to cover ALL my bases to such a claim. Why can you not give me time to express myself is beyond me. As of right now I am 3/4th done with my write up just to you...and as stupid as it sounds, it has cut in to my work time just because of this challenge. If you want I can turn in what I have right now if you like? I just dont get it...why you do not think the PS was used in this fashion. You do know the PS was established in Feb of 1901 right?..a full year before the Philippine American War ended. What do you think their job was? You do know the Macabebe Scouts were the "original" PS right?...and who were they credited for capturing!...the head hancho himself, Emilio Aguinaldo! Sorry, but to think that the PS was souly used to fight the Moros shows complete ignorance on your part about the PS. As I have mentioned, I am not done yet. But heres a sample of what I have for you as part of "DOCUMENTED PROOF". Taken from "Fifth Annual Report of Philippine Commission 1904." Part 1, Page 14 --------------------------- USE OF CONSTABULARY IN CONNECTION WITH SCOUTS. The act of Congress of February 2, 1901, provided for the creation of a body of native troops not exceeding 12,000 in number, called "scouts," to be organized as companies, squadrons, or battalions, as in the Regular Army. Under this act 50 companies of 100 men each were organized, but with the exception of the battalion sent to the Louisiana Purchase Exposition at St. Louis no battalion organization has ever been formed. The act further provided that the captains to command scout companies should be selected from first lieutenants of the line of the Regular Army, and that the first and second lieutenants should be selected from noncommissioned officers or enlisted men of the Regular Army of not less .than two years' service, or from officers or noncommissioned officers who had served in volunteer organizations subsequent to April 21, 1898. Probably from motives of economy, only first and second lieutenants of scout companies have been appointed. The act of Congress of January 30, 1903, authorized the detail of scout companies, under the limitations therein provided, for service with the insular constabulary forces. Pursuant to the provisions of this act the commanding general, Philippine Division, upon the request of the civil governor, has detailed from time to time 39 scout companies for service with the constabulary.
As stated in our previous report, there has been some disposition to criticise this act, but experience has demonstrated its wisdom and value. Although theoretically the combination of scouts and constabulary is open to the objection that it places a branch of the Regular Army under the direction of civil officials, this objection is fully met when it is considered that the commanding general authorizes the detail, and the chief and assistant chiefs of constabulary who are called upon to direct the operations of the scouts thus detailed are army officers of large experience and high standing. The result of the act has been to permit a substantial decrease in the number of the constabulary, and to that extent to relieve the insular government of an additional burden which it could illy bear. The officers of the two organizations are drawn from the same source of supply and the enlisted men are all natives, so that there is no real difficulty in securing harmonious cooperation between them, as experience has clearly demonstrated. During the year there has been a reduction of American troops in the islands by about one-third. There are now only 12,000 of them here as against 18,000 last year. They now occupy 39 posts only as against 70 posts one year ago. During the year the constabulary and scouts in combination have been scattered throughout the archipelago, usefully and successfully employed in protecting the peaceful and law-abiding inhabitants and in pursuing and breaking up bands of carabao thieves and ladrones wherever they appeared. The firearms which remained in the hands of these outlaws after the insurrection have nearly all been gathered in, so that outside of the Moro Province there remain only a very few in the hands of unauthorized and dangerous characters ; but unfortunately it is easy for a bold outlaw, having control of but two or three guns, to terrify and hold up an entire village. It therefore is necessary to have small detachments of scouts or constabulary scattered through the more remote portions of nearly all the provinces for purposes of protection, and while this necessity has much decreased it still to a considerable extent exists.
Each municipality has a police force of its own, and in many instances they have been armed with shotguns or other inferior weapons as a measure of protection to the people of the municipalities. If the municipal president happens to be a man of energy and courage, there is but little difficulty in his being able to accomplish this result, but, as is not infrequently the case, when he lacks these qualities it is easy for a few resolute men to surprise the police and take away their weapons. This has happened several times, and it has caused the constabulary authorities to proceed very conservatively in arming the municipal police. But it is proper to say in this connection that the municipal police are gradually being improved and disciplined, and the municipal authorities are beginning to exhibit more energy in protecting their respective communities, so that in the not remote future it is possible that both constabulary and scouts may be reduced in numbers. During the past year several instances have occurred in which the municipal authorities have repelled attacks of marauders and killed or captured them. The steady progress made in eliminating the professional bad men during the past three years is seen in the general peace and quiet which now prevail, but in our judgment it would be unwise, especially if, as seems to be probable, a further decrease of the Regular Army in the islands is contemplated, to reduce the number of scout companies or to repeal the law which permits of their use in connection with the constabulary. ---------------------------------- So please, let me finish this formally, as I could provide you many instances. I would not want you to get the wrong impression of me by showing you a half ass'd reply. I am not a walking encyclopedia and I do not not stake information off the top of my head. I do not claim to know everything, but I know well enough in this area. There is just so much information I do have to dig, being the last time studied Sakay and his band was last year and not yesterday. IN NO WAY AM I TRYING TO TARNISH THE REPUTATION OF THE PS. You asked, and I will tell you the truth, even if it hurts. And as I mentioned in another thread, I am personal friends with Dr. Isabelo Torio, PS of the 26th Cav. Regards, Kevin
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 17:04:12 GMT -5
You do know the Macabebe Scouts were the "original" PS right?...
TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY INACCURATE!!!!
The PS that were created were never a part of the Macabebe's! Do you who the original Macabebe's were? Please make more thorough research on the origins of the Macabebe's!
All you have shown are Act of Congress documents. I don't see any evidence on what the particpation of the PS that the I have asked about SAKAY being CAPTURED and KILLED by the PS?
IN NO WAY AM I TRYING TO TARNISH THE REPUTATION OF THE PS. You asked, and I will tell you the truth, even if it hurts.
Since when have I CLAIMED that the PS were "clean" of this?
The PS chased, captured, and killed a LOT of our heroes.
Sakay and all his men(+300), Julian Montalon and his men, Cornelio Felizardo, Luciano San Miguel and his entire brigade, Julian Santos, Faustino Guillermo, Artemio Ricarte, Ricarte’s Vigan PC revoltists, Vicente Lukban, Simeon Ola, Faustino Ablen, Felipe Salvador,
the entire Moro nation…
sheesh you can go on and on and on with names.
Literally thousands of men captured and killed by the PS,
and the early PS were branded for this.
So what are these lists you casually sounded off, but obviously to imply with extreme BIAS that the PS were some sort of SS henchmen of the US? Please do not insult me when you carelessly made these statements and now claim you were not trying to "tarnish" the PS! I think it is more BS on your part!
Now as for your problem on trying to find the time to research at work ALL the claims that was an reckless opinion you started and you should have known there would be a response to it! You created those issues. That is your problem not mine!
Philip
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 17:23:25 GMT -5
Scout OriginsOrganized in 1901 and recruited from the indigenous population, the Philippine Scouts initially were used to suppress Muslim Moro rebels in the southern islands and garrison the Philippines when most U.S. troops were diverted to Europe during World War I. In gratitude for this, the U.S. Congress authorized induction of the 6,000 Scouts into the regular U. S. Army. A common misperception is that the Philippine Scouts are descended from the Macabebe Scouts, who gained notoriety by serving first the Spanish, then the Americans during the suppression of the Philippine independence movement. The Macabebe's also are resented for playing a key role in the capture by subterfuge of General Emilio Aguinaldo, leader of the Filipino independence forces. The Philippine Scouts and the Macabebe Scouts were formed almost simultaneously, but separately.www.philippine-scouts.org/history/bataan-their-finest-hour.html
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 17:25:33 GMT -5
Philip,
I know this is a tough pill to swallow, and sorry I have to play Devils Advocate here, but it is “documented” in MANY reports. And yes I do have the reports. I know this forum and all the members hold great emphasis on the PS group so I will try and make this a bit detailed…and so I don’t look like I am just stating my opinion of the PS and talking out my a$$.
First off, I guess I should give a little background of who I am and what I do. I know I am the new guy here(low post count) and I don’t know most of the member here and they don’t know me…but I am not new to Philippine History. And sorry to say I do not do any type of reenactments, but I do like this forum for the sheer fact you guys are preserving “our” history…I really do respect all of you for that and I do realize our history is not well documented. And that is what I am here for…for more knowledge and to share where I possibly can. I have been researching for over 10 years, and my specific area is the era of Rizal, the Philippine Revolution, the Philippine American War, the Moro Wars, and anything else in between…but from time to time I will delve in to WWII and everything else that pertains to Philippine History. Again, I don’t claim to know “everything”, but I feel I know well enough. And with that, I guess the only two people here who really know me are Faustino and Paolo…who, I am sure, would vouch for me, if that means anything. And I would just like to add, Dr. Isabelo Torio, PS of 26th Cav. is a dear friend of mine and my family…so I can NOT be a PS hater, as I have heard stories directly from him on their struggles that made me admire and respect the PS.
As I have mentioned already, my sources are the “Annual Reports of the War Department” and “Annual Reports of the Philippine Commission” from 1899 to 1908 and some beyond…there are several volumes of each year and the pages can range from 400 to 1000 on each volume. I do not need to reference any book, as most books use these sources anyways and may authors leave out information just so they can get their own opinionated view across. There are a few reports I did not care to save as they did not pertain to anything historically valuable to me(a lot reported on banking, money, land, forestry, health, water ways, rivers, etc..) Being you specifically want to focus on the PS and “Sakay and his men”, I will start there first.
I believe what I mentioned before about the Macabebe Scouts and their capture of Aguinaldo is proof enough. Eitherway, I will continue. I will state common knowledge of the PS just so you know I know and for others who read this so they may possibly learn something. The PS belonged to the US Army, while the PC answered to the “Civil”-Governor(Taft/Wright) and the Philippine Commission. This is the discouraging part, no reports from the PS officers are included in the Annual Reports, being the later reports were written by the Philippine Commission and not the US Army. BUT, I must say, the Annual Reports contain lengthy reports of the PC officers which include and mention the PS. AND, the PS were always “under” the jurisdiction of the PC officer, so all that mattered were the reports of the PC officers. From my understanding the PS were to clean up the rest of Aguinaldos men when the war was coming to a close, while the PCs were to maintain order in the civil affairs, but due to the great task of working in a war, both parties did work interchangeably. And like we see in Iraq today with the establishment of a Police force made up of natives, the same holds true with the PCs…and just like what is happening now in Iraq, the local Police are also in war with insurgents, and not just dealing with civil affairs. After the war officially ended in July 1902, the Philippine Commission passed the Bandolerism Act in Nov 12, 1902. I feel that date is extremely significant because ANYONE caught after the law was put in to effect was considered and outlaw/ladrone/bandit no matter what they claimed or what they were fighting for. Even Gen. Simeon Ola who thought he would fall under the Philippine American War Amnesty after he surrendered in 1903, he went to trial charged as a “bandit” and he(including all his men) were sentenced to 20 years in prison. After the Bandolerism Act, the PCs were in charge of sweeping up what ever was left. This is I believe where people do not understand the entire situation in the Philippines at that time. From 1902-1906, groups and bands were running rampant everywhere, I am talking over thousands of men on Luzon alone. The PC group was initially in charge to take care of these groups, which they couldn’t, and that meant both the PS and US Army had to used by the PC in nearly every instance. It was not until 1907 after the disbandment of Sakays group when the island started to fall under the PC control, and in 1908 the PC mentioned they were happy to report that the PS and the US Army was not needed for the entire year (J. G. Harbord Sec of Commerce and Police, Manila, Report 1908_Vol .2:pg 367.)
Sakay and his men I strongly believe Sakay and his original leaders had good intentions, but I seriously believe his group got way out of hand. Sakay(more then likely the leaders under him) accepted anyone in to his group, and that included real killers and robbers who were not fighting for any cause. In the reports they mention Felizardo’s group alone number in the 300s. This can get very lengthy so I will only briefly describe the setting and story on some instances that matter. Here is my own list of leaders under Sakay’s Government that I drew up just by reading these reports.
President.......................Macario Sakay Vice-President................Francisco Carreon Lt. General.....................Julian Montalan(Overall command)(Buenavista, Cavite; Talisay; and Bayuyungan, Batangas)
Maj. General...................Lucio de Vega(South Cavite/San Francisco Malabon) Members................Domingo Lumusco Colonel......................Julian Ramos(Magallanes, Maragondon, and Nasugbu) Ciriaco Masigla (Indang) Maj...........................Alvarez Lt.............................Apolonia Catra(female officer)
Maj. General...................Cornelio Felizardo(North Cavite; Pasay-Bacoor) Lt Col..............................Cosme Caro – Das Marinas Maj,................................ Vicente Giron - Silang
Maj. General..................Benito Natividad(Tanauan/Santo Tomas region)
Maj. General...................Leon Villafuerte(Bulacan region)
Brig. General(ex-Colonel).......Aniceto Oruga(Overall Batangas Region) Colonel.............................Andres Villanueva (Bauan) Lt Col...............................Pructuoso Vito (Taal) Maj.................................. Kmeterio Flores (San Pablos Laguna) Captain..................... Carlos Oruga Geronimo Rocafor
----------------------------------------------
1905: Jan 24 - Felizardo and de Vega attacks the town of San Francisco del Malabon and attempts to murder Trias; takes Trias wife and two kids hostage March - Section 6 of Act NO. 781 re-issued, reconcentation camps(Zonas) established in Cavite, Batangas, Laguna, and Rizal(ends in the last week of July) March 5 - Lt. Apolonia Catra, female officer under Lucio de Vega, killed in April 28-29 - Gen Aniceto Oruga captured at Mt Makiling(Paulino Enriquez, Carlos Oruga, Jose Javier, Antonio Natauanan, and 3 escapees from Malahi) by Thompson and Baker; Gregorio Flores(roam San Pablo, Laguna) soon surrendered in Lipa, Batangas. July - Macario Sakays staff captured: Col. Kmeterio Flores, Major Marcos Angeles, Captain Javier, Captain Luciano (70-80 rifles seized) Aug - Valentine Montalan captured by towns folks of Jalang *unknown date - Cosme Caro killed during the night at Tres Cruces by Lt. Schnyder with a detachment of the Second Cavalry *unknown date - Ciriaco Masigla killed.
1906: March 1 - Cornelio Felizardo killed in fight with 2 privates of the Philippine Constabulary disguised as friends (1906 Sec War Report)...Lit Lit barrio Cavite, Van Schaick and Scouts credited Aug 22 - Marcario Sakay, Julian Montalan, Leon Villafuerte, and Lucio de Vega are sentenced to death. Sept - Gen. Aniceto Oruga and Geronimo Rocafor are sentenced to death. (Death date?)
-------------------------------
::::adding more as we speak since some one cant wait:::
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 17:28:47 GMT -5
You do know the Macabebe Scouts were the "original" PS right?...TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY INACCURATE!!!! The PS that were created were never a part of the Macabebe's! Do you who the original Macabebe's were? Please make more thorough research on the origins of the Macabebe's! All you have shown are Act of Congress documents. I don't see any evidence on what the particpation of the PS that the I have asked about SAKAY being CAPTURED and KILLED by the PS? Yes I do know who the Macabebe were. They were from Pampanga and they were enemies of the Tagalogs. I guess you know more then this website then. www.philippine-scouts.org/Macabebe Scouts Macabebe Scouts, formed in 1901, a few weeks before the Philippine Scouts were formed. Later most of them were integrated into the Philippine Scouts. (Photo provided by Philip Garcia.)
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 17:39:27 GMT -5
All you have shown are Act of Congress documents. I don't see any evidence on what the particpation of the PS that the I have asked about SAKAY being CAPTURED and KILLED by the PS? And what does that Law pertain to!? It shows that the PS were USED by the PC to help dispose of bandits after 1903. HELLO! I never once said Sakay was Killed by the PS...Sakay was hanged. Many of his men were killed by both the PS and PC. Again, I have documents...which is HARD EVIDENCE. Just wait and see.
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Post by 26th on Jun 24, 2008 17:41:52 GMT -5
Boy we have our own revolution!! Picutre of original 1902 45 used in Moro wars. Revolver not auto. Interesting comment of Macabe Scouts against Tagalogs. My dad and his family, 26th Scouts were Illocano's. Do they hate Tagalogs? Not familuar on that kind of history of the Philippines. Tribal my brothers just like the Indaians. Enjoy picture. Rudy/26Cav
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 17:42:54 GMT -5
AGAIN were does it specifically state that the PS had a direct hand in the"chasing, capturing and KILLING" of Sakay and his 100 followers? WERE? All I read are the Philippine constabulary were in charge! As It says and you claim that the Macabebe's were the original PS. WRONG! BTW they originally were brough over by the Spanish from Mexico. That's why they did not care for the locals, as they were imported mercenaries of the Spanish. BTW I DID NOT PROVIDE THAT PHOTO!! Let me put this ON RECORD!NEVER HAVE ! I never once said Sakay was Killed by the PS...Sakay was hanged. You cannot be honest enough to admit his name was THE VERY FIRST ONE you mentioned IN YOUR LIST i repeated above! hanged, killed their both the same! Philip
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 18:05:42 GMT -5
AGAIN were does it specifically state that the PS had a direct hand in the"chasing, capturing and KILLING" of Sakay and his 100 followers? WERE? All I read are the Philippine constabulary were in charge! As It says and you claim that the Macabebe's were the original PS. WRONG! BTW they originally were brough over by the Spanish from Mexico. That's why they did not care for the locals, as they were imported mercenaries of the Spanish. BTW I DID NOT PROVIDE THAT PHOTO!! Let me put this ON RECORD!NEVER HAVE ! Philip Well, If I am wrong about the Macabebe's then that website is wrong. Dont blame me, blame the website for putting out false information! Anyways, just real quick to show you. Since I was reading up on Luciano San Miguel the other day, I can get this to you quick...here is where it perfectly states for you the PS were used in the "KILLING" of one of our National Heroes in 1903. Accordingly, use was made of the scouts under the "constabulary act", and this with very good efffect. In two engagements, one with the constabulary and the other with a company of SCOUTS, the ladrones suffered most severely, losing in the latter of the two engagements more than 60 men by death, including their leader, San Miguel.You cant fake that. You can not get anymore better evidence then this. You should listen to Perry, even he agrees with me. ;D I will scan more copies of the PS involvement with Sakay and his men. Just be patient.
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 18:18:33 GMT -5
You have been giving me excuses on Sakay.
WOW ! I never knew that the PS got San Miguel or anyone on that list! I must be making exaggerated claims!
Now you impling that the PSHS website is inaccurate and wrong about everything That was obviously a mistake of the editor and I did not bother to tell them either. Give me a break!
Philip
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 18:25:32 GMT -5
You have been giving me excuses on Sakay. Ask you shall receive brother. During the first days of the month of September I went out with a company of SCOUTS and a few municipal police toward Majayjay to seek some of the remnants of the bands that we had engaged during the previous days, which I did not doubt would have to retire towards the hills....I found a few scouts upon my arrival at Calamba who had already pursued the enemy to the summit of the said mountain.I am adding the last page of the report because you would probably not believe me if I told you who wrote that report and shot it out with Sakay and his band. The person who is in fact chasing Sakay and his men with "Scouts" is Gen Juan Cailles(who at that time was Governor of Laguna). Dont worry I have more.
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 18:47:53 GMT -5
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 19:23:02 GMT -5
More "documented proof" the PS were used against Sakays men. Not less important was the fine, broad spirit evinced by Major Sibley, commanding the regular troops, and Colonel Baker, assistant chief of constabulary, commanding the SCOUTS and Constabulary. This taking place in Cavite/Batangas region. Please, congratulate them for me on the freedom of Batangas from ladronism. While the constabulary and SCOUTS have done hard and brillian work... Seven SCOUTS left as guard over government property formed no part of the regular garrison, but did good service in assisting in the driving away the bandits. Sure they were on guard watch...but they were in CAVITE and not in Moro land where you claim they all were. And they did help repress men from SAKAYs outfit. Im curious, do you get the picture yet? I believe it is now your turn to show me "documented proof" the Philippine Scouts did NOT "pursue, capture, kill" any of Sakays men...or any other band for that matter. ===== And Ill be up front with you. If I am wrong about the Macabebes being part of the PS, then I admit that and I am sorry. But at least tell me what became of the Macabebes if they were not good enough to be phased in to the PS, and who were they under?
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 19:59:15 GMT -5
Proof PS was used against the Ricartes PC Vigan Revolt.
This party of mutineers, after robbing the commissary and helping themselves to guns, ammunition, clothing, etc., started out through the province, but were intercepted by the SCOUTS, constabulary, and American cavalry within the next few days.[/i]
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 22:27:04 GMT -5
Im curious, do you get the picture yet? I believe it is now your turn to show me "documented proof" the Philippine Scouts did NOT "pursue, capture, kill" any of Sakays men...or any other band for that matter.
There is nothing in all those documents you have been flooding on this thread there CLEARLY states that the PS CAPTURED and KILLED SAKAY! Yes it seems they particpated in the PURSUIT but you made clear claims about SAKAY's fate on the scouts. These were your words and ALL those on your lists!
I don't really need to show "documented proof" as I have not made any reckless claims you made! The one documented proof I showed you and you were proven wrong right away.
And Ill be up front with you. If I am wrong about the Macabebes being part of the PS, then I admit that and I am sorry.
YES you were clearly!
But at least tell me what became of the Macabebes if they were not good enough to be phased in to the PS, and who were they under?
You do know the Macabebe Scouts were the "original" PS right?...
This was your original "expert" claim that the PS WERE the Macabebes. So do not try and be (philosopho) and twist the issue and make direct claims that the Scouts were the Macabebe's.
Philip
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 23:06:45 GMT -5
Im curious, do you get the picture yet? I believe it is now your turn to show me "documented proof" the Philippine Scouts did NOT "pursue, capture, kill" any of Sakays men...or any other band for that matter. There is nothing in all those documents you have been flooding on this thread there CLEARLY states that the PS CAPTURED and KILLED SAKAY! Yes it seems they particpated in the PURSUIT but you made clear claims about SAKAY's fate on the scouts. These were your words and ALL those on your lists! I don't really need to show "documented proof" as I have not made any reckless claims you made! The one documented proof I showed you and you were proven wrong right away. And Ill be up front with you. If I am wrong about the Macabebes being part of the PS, then I admit that and I am sorry. YES you were clearly! But at least tell me what became of the Macabebes if they were not good enough to be phased in to the PS, and who were they under? You do know the Macabebe Scouts were the "original" PS right?... This was your original "expert" claim that the PS WERE the Macabebes. So do not try and be (philosopho) and twist the issue and make direct claims that the Scouts were the Macabebe's. Philip Seriously, I think you dont know anything about the Macabebes if you cant tell me what happen to them. If you know so much of "their" history, then PROVE IT! Yes I am calling you out...since you didnt reply FAST enough I really doubt you know what your talking about. Here we go. There is a BIG SPACE between my sentences where I state "Chased, Captured, and Killed". You HONESTLY believed I meant ALL OF OUR HEROES ARE DEAD BECAUSE OF THE PS!?!?! Heres proof I knew how Sakay died LONG before I commented in this thread. filipinoforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5669The PS didnt kill or hang Sakay. The Bilibid Prison hanged him(had nothing to do with the PC or PS). Sakay turned himself in!...EVERYBODY knows that. I'm a big fan of Sakay...dont believe me? Check the date of that post I made, it is the 100 year anniversary of his hanging...how many people you know would remember or CARE about that? When I posted "chased, captured, and killed", it was a broad statement that the PS did one of the 3 against our hereos. Nobodys that stupid...why is it everyone else knew what I was talking about but you. Face it you just didnt know that the PS acted against our heroes in this way...you may know PS WWII history, but you dont know their early history. You even pushed the point that the PS were NOT used in any part of the capture/chase/kill of any of our HEROES!..as this statement of yours proves that: AGAIN wildly exagerrated condemnation and distortions that the PS were "traitors and had an infamous past" in Philippine History! [/color] Philip[/quote] So what are these lists you casually sounded off, but obviously to imply with extreme BIAS that the PS were some sort of SS henchmen of the US?Seriously, you can say the PS were used as henchmen if your twisted enough to see it that way. I called your bluff and proved my point...now you just dont want to admit I was right and your wrong. I just lost ALL respect for you. Pitiful it comes down to this...but anyways. Nothing else to prove here, nothing else to say. Im through. Kevin
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 23:22:19 GMT -5
"now you just dont want to admit I was right and your wrong." You HONESTLY believed I meant ALL OF OUR HEROES ARE DEAD BECAUSE OF THE PS!?!?! The PS chased, captured, and killed a LOT of our heroes. Sakay and all his men(+300), - "The PS didnt kill or hang Sakay." (had nothing to do with the PC or PS). I never once said Sakay was Killed by the PS Julian Montalon and his men, Cornelio Felizardo, Luciano San Miguel and his entire brigade, Julian Santos, Faustino Guillermo, Artemio Ricarte, Ricarte’s Vigan PC revoltists, Vicente Lukban, Simeon Ola, Faustino Ablen, Felipe Salvador, the entire Moro nation… sheesh you can go on and on and on with names. LITERALLY THOUSANDS of men captured and KILLED by the PS, and the early PS were branded for this.
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 23:28:09 GMT -5
And Ill be up front with you. If I am wrong about the Macabebes being part of the PS, then I admit that and I am sorry. Well, If I am wrong about the Macabebe's then that website is wrong. Dont blame me, blame the website for putting out false information! Seriously, I think you dont know anything about the Macabebes if you cant tell me what happen to them. If you know so much of "their" history, then PROVE IT!
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 24, 2008 23:28:57 GMT -5
You HONESTLY believed I meant ALL OF OUR HEROES ARE DEAD BECAUSE OF THE PS!?!?! The PS chased, captured, and killed a LOT of our heroes. Sakay and all his men(+300), Julian Montalon and his men, Cornelio Felizardo, Luciano San Miguel and his entire brigade, Julian Santos, Faustino Guillermo, Artemio Ricarte, Ricarte’s Vigan PC revoltists, Vicente Lukban, Simeon Ola, Faustino Ablen, Felipe Salvador, the entire Moro nation… sheesh you can go on and on and on with names. Literally thousands of men captured and killed by the PS, and the early PS were branded for this. Ill sound off two battles for you... Battle of Bud Dajo and Battle Bud Bagsak. PS participated in both, and YES! THOUSANDS DIED!
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 24, 2008 23:32:23 GMT -5
You HONESTLY believed I meant ALL OF OUR HEROES ARE DEAD BECAUSE OF THE PS!?!?! Ill sound off two battles for you...Battle of Bud Dajo and Battle Bud Bagsak. PS participated in both, and YES! THOUSANDS DIED! "Nothing else to prove here, nothing else to say. Im through."
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