The Macabebe's

[legionnaire]

"The Macabebes, were never native to the Philippines.

Their ancestors were Yaqui Indians brought in over from Mexico. They were a large portion of the Spanish garrison force before South America gained Independence from Spain.

The Spanish loved them and gave them land in Pampanga where they intermarried with the natives who also hated the Tagalogs. Because of their close ties to Spain, the Tagalogs hated them, but you can't consider them traitors if they were never really Filipinos in the first place.

When Spain gave up the Philippines the Macabebe scouts were integrated into the Philippine army. They used to serve under Gen. Antonio Luna, but when Aguinaldo ordered Luna killed, the Macabebes switched sides, either they are true Luna loyalists or they were sickened by the idea that the president had their commander killed in cold blood or both. When it was time to capture Aguinaldo, most of the Macabebes saw this as hatchet day for Aguinaldo, although it was recorded that 3 Scouts refused to participate by feigning illness (1 hid in the hammocks of the ship used in the operation). The 3 Filipino leaders of the operation initially refused to participate (Talplacido, Cadhit and Segovia), they were "persuaded" by Funston to participate, and participate they did performing their acts like seasoned actors. Given this information, it is very easy to understand why the so-called traitors acted the way they did.


The Macabebe scouts were formed from, as from their name suggests, Kapampangans from Macabebe. They were a small group of Spanish colonial troops who were counted as a reliable formation by the Spanish. Why reliable? Well, they hated the Tagalogs and did not have any qualms in killing their hated adversaries. After the Spanish left, they were impressed by Gen. Antonio Luna's handling of the Armed forces and they enlisted in the Philippine Army and served mainly Gen. Antonio Luna. They were subsequently disenchanted when Aguinaldo had their commander killed. (See above) They were mainly used by the Americans in further formenting regional animosities, to pursue their successful strategy of divide and counquer.

The Philippine Scouts on the other hand were composed of volunteers recruited from all over the country.

There might have been some Macabebes in this unit but they formed a part of one big unit and they could have been sprinkled in various formations within the Scouts.

When the Philippine Scouts were formed in 1901, the Philippine American War was practically over (Aguinaldo was captured March 23, 1901), thus they were not really used to suppress dissent since resistance was confined to small parts of the archipelego.

The Philippine Scouts was a professional organization composed of the best of the best in the country. It represented the creme de la creme of Philippine soldiery as World War II would show. Repulsing the Japs several times their number, acting as mobile fire brigades counter attacking when Japs penetrated the lines, etc. They gave a very good account of themselves throughout the war. Sgt. Calugas who earned the US Medal of Honor was from this unit. Most their members are interred in the American Cemetery in Fort Bonifacio. "

I don't remenber the source of were I found this info on the net anymore.

"[The Macabebes were believed to be descendants of Mexican Yaqui Indians who were brought to the Philippines by Spain.]"

www.freewebs.com/philippineamericanwar/thewarrages1899.htm

Philip

[r2ro]

Hello Legionnaire,

My book " Soldier in the Sun " by William T. Sexton did not specify what tibes of Indian or what. It just stated that the ancestors of the Macabebes had been imported by the Spanish from Mexico. (Pg 163) I am not sure if they were part of General Lunas' Army. I know that the whole Pampanga province fought the Spanish and Americans except the town of Macabebe and Masantol. I read on one these books that Gen. Luna burned down the whole Macabebe town for siding with the Americans. A couple of my grandfather served with the Macabebe Scouts (Bustos and the Lacanlale) and one of them (Lacanlale) was assigned to Batangas at Camp McGrath at the turned of the century and that's were my mother grew up. So, we are part Macabebe and Batangas. It was a Macabebe Sargeant (Sgt Lobo) who recruited my Father with the 45th Inf Regt (PS). And I have an uncle also within the same unit, Lt. Punla. My mother told me that most of scouts in thier Company where from Macabebes that was back then 1930's.


A. L. Garcia
Macabebe Scout
45th Inf Regt (PS)

[dimasalang]

I have been meaning to make a Macabebe thread, but never had the time. Now that there is one I guess I can post now and share what I found on the Macabebes.

"The Macabebes, were never native to the Philippines. "

"[The Macabebes were believed to be descendants of Mexican Yaqui Indians who were brought to the Philippines by Spain.]"

I really question the source of this information. If this is indeed from a book, what was their source? Please point me to a "reliable" source.

The Macabebes history is not hidden, it is well "documented". And it dates back "prior" to the Spanish arrival. If it is well recognized as dating prior to Spanish arrival, then they were not from Mexico or imported by Spain.

First off, the Spanish "discovered for themselves" Manila in 1570. In Philippine history class(in the Philippines) one learns the Battle of Bangkusay in 1571...this is the faithful stance the Luzon natives took against the Spanish invasion. This is a well documented event in Philippine History and Spanish History. True, it is known throughout our history the Macabebes were direct enemies with the Tagalogs, but it is NOT because the Macabebes were foreigners. The hatred stems from the peace between the three Tagalog chiefs of Manila(Soliman, Matanda, and Lakandula) and the Spanish. This peace let the Spanish settle on to native soil, which initially was to be a short visit. Macabebe chief, Tarik(aka Torik or Tariq) Soliman was fully against the Spanish. The story goes on with Rajah Soliman defying the peace when he discovers the Spanish wanted to colonize the land. Some historians believe Rajah Soliman teamed up with Tarik Soliman and both fought in the Battle of Bangkusay...both are hailed in this battle. One key fact is the two other Tagalog Chiefs did not help and remained friends with the Spaniards. The end result, Tarik Soliman lost his life, the Macabebes warriors were nearly wiped off the face of the earth. The Macabebe people placed blame on the Tagalogs for losing the battle, losing their leader, losing there warriors, and losing their native land. This event in history seperated the two tribes and this is infact how Pampanga the provence came to be. This reference can be found in any history book on the Philippines as it is significant with the history of Tarik Soliman, Macabebes, Tondo, Rajah Lakandula, Manila, Rajah Soliman, and the arrival of the Spainards in to Manila. The Macabebes had a great empire going long before the Spanish arrived. The Macabebes were NEVER imported. Years later, with the Macabebe threat suppressed, the Spanish used the Macabebes hatred and made them mercinaries to help suppress uprisings by the Tagalogs. This is how the rivalry between the Tagalogs and Macabebes came to be.

This information can be found through out the internet and through out Philippine History books.

Tarik Soliman(a Macabebe leader) is a national hero. To some, he is up there with Lapu-Lapu, as being a martyr and the FIRST NATIVE, a Macabebe, to defy the Spanish rule on Luzon.

Article from the National Historical Institute of the Philippines
www.nhi.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&Itemid=2

If this is NOT true, then how were the Macabebes imported from Mexico(North America) when they fought in a battle against the Spanish within one year after the Spanish arrived in Luzon?...how were they part of the Yaqui Indian tribe? If this is mis-information, please "prove" to me that I am wrong.

Aug 2, 2008 2:20:42 GMT -5 legionnaire said:

"[The Macabebes were believed to be descendants of Mexican Yaqui Indians who were brought to the Philippines by Spain.]"

www.freewebs.com/philippineamericanwar/thewarrages1899.htm

Philip

"Believed" is not concrete and fact.
Also from Arnaldo Dumindin website:
www.freewebs.com/philippineamericanwar/captureofaguinaldo1901.htm

The Macabebes were fierce freedom fighters when they first appeared in written history; they fought the Spanish invaders in 1571. Ironically, it was the Tagalogs (under Lakandula of Tondo and Rajah Soliman of Manila) who eventually welcomed the Spaniards while the Kapampangans (under Tarik Soliman of Macabebe) had to die fighting in the Battle of Bangkusay. [/i]

[mish]

I'm wondering what the point of this whole thread is.

If there's information that they were not "native," fine.
If there's information that they fought the Spaniards in the 1570s, fine.

What's historically incontestible at this point in time is that they were used/happily cooperated with, divide-and-conquer style, with Spanish and American pacification.

Aside from correcting certain misconceptions that don't affect the big picture, what's this thread for?

[faustino]

be patient Mish.... this is all very interesting (esp. since my MIL is from that area of Pampanga) ;D

who are the Yaqui Indians? here is some of what I found.....

n 1533, the Yaquis saw the first white men: a Spanish military expedition searching for slaves. The Spanish who initiated warfare were soundly defeated, but took thousands of Yaqui lives. Between 1608 and 1610 the Spanish repeatedly attacked the Yaqui people. The Yaquis proved they could raise a fighting force of 7,000 within a few hours to successfully defend Yaqui land and cultural integrity.

Nevertheless, the Yaquis preferred peace. They asked the Jesuits to enter Yaqui villages to do missionary work and economic development. Most of the 60,000 Yaquis settled into eight sacred towns or "pueblos" and built churches: La Navidad del Senor de Vikam, Santa Rosa de Vahkom, La Asuncion de Nuestra Senora de Rahum, Espiritu Santo (Ko'okoim), Santa Barbara de Wiivisim, San Ignacio de Torim, San Miguel de Veenem, and La Santisima Trinidad de Potam.

www.manataka.org/page129.html

In 1533, the tribe had its first confrontation with the Spaniards when Diego de Guzmán and his soldiers were defeated by a united force of Yaqui warriors. More than seventy years later, in 1609, another Spanish party lost its battle with the Indians. Yet, the Yaqui were interested in Spanish material culture and proved to be eager converts to Christianity. They developed a new religion which contained both native and Christian elements.

www.lasculturas.com/aa/vs_EdithYaqui.htm

This claim that Yaqui Indians were brought over by the Spanish is looking very doubtful..... besides the Spanish didn't need any outside help pitting one Filipino tribe against another to suppress any rebellions.
perhaps there is some confusion because there is a Mexico in Pampanga ;D

[faustino]

a claim from an internet website and a vague quote from a book is the only evidence I have heard that Yaqui Indians settled in Pampanga and raised hell on the Tagologs.

I think Dimisalang is justified in wanting to see more "documented" evidence backing those claims.

My reason for doubting it is because it seems uncharacteristic of the Spanish to use Native Mexicans for anything aside from mining work in Mexico... I could be wrong

[26th]

faustino;

Now the hunt is on. We need to send some scouts to that Pampanga place and look up records and see if any "all you need is "one" breeding for a few years" Yaqui settled there.

Do we know anyone from there?

Rudy

[26th]

This was taken off the internet from Ethnic groups in the Philippines. In "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

Is this the one you mentioned faustino?

They mention an author named Austin Craig but I could not find much on him at this time.

American Indians mentioned in last paragraph.

Rudy

[dimasalang]

Mish,
Philippine History itself is not well defined. Many Filipinos and others scour the internet wanting to learn Philippine history in search for the truth. This place, I feel, is an important medium and can be a key, not just to us, but to all others out there. Search google for some certain Philippine Scout history and chances are this forum will turn up and give answers. What I am here to do is "clear up" any false information or, in this case, debunk the claim the Macabebes were from Mexico.

Faustino brought up a great point...maybe people are confused when they hear Macabebes are from Mexico...they may be thinking Mexico, Pamapanga.

26th, I am a amatuer historian. Quite a few people here know my seriousness in Philippine History...and they know it is a huge pet peeve of mine to see false information spewin about the internet. You, and others here, may think this is just some forum for a few members; like I mentioned, people search far and wide for answers, and this place carries a lot of weight when it comes to this specific topic. We must get this right. My post is in regards that the Macabebes are descendants of the Yaqui people..Not in regards if the Yaqui came after the Spanish arrival and became the Macabebes. We must find the truth in this claim. Why?...because it is of my belief the Macabebe people were both, the original "Native Scouts" and the original "Philippine Scouts". And they deserve their respectful place in Philippine Scouts...and this also means finding their origins. If someone were to make such a hard claim that the Yaqui Indian were infact the original Macacbebes, then how hard is it to back up such a claim and provide a reliable source? As any historian will tell you, hard facts and evidence matter..."hear say" or a "belief" is not concrete evidence. I have seen such claims easily snow ball in to a huge ordeal. Case in point, the place of the "First shots of the Philippine American War", also the "Battle of Paye" and its confusion with Gen Lawton and the Battle of San Mateo. IMO it is very dangerous to stake claims with out "proper" sources. I staked my claim and I feel it is definitely against what Philip has stated, and I would say my claim would be hard to beat as I have history on my side...not a quote from a website or a book that are not well recognized.

I just have to say, the first time I heard this claim that the Macabebes were of Mexico, North America, the first thing I did was phone one of my good friends. He is of Pamapanga(born and lived there for 27 years) and he has best friends who are of Macabebe descent. I asked him if the Macabebes were infact of Mexican descent and he laughed his ass off. He also mentioned what Faustino has said, maybe people are getting it confused with Mexico Pampanga. He specifically told me, the Macabebes are proud to be the first to fight against Spanish rule on that island, and they were there long before the Spanish arrived.

You are right, the original Macabebe fought against the Spanish but in between then and the the coming of the US, the Yaqui came after the fact and mixed.

Man the Spanish mixed the whole world with people they conquered including us Filipino's..

By the way what tribe are you from? I am of the Illacano's.

The whole belief that the Spanish "heavily" mixed with the Filipinos is false also. I have met plenty of Filipinos(typically Fil-Ams) who believed they are mixed and of Spanish descent...I speak with their parents and they say otherwise. This I feel stems from their belief since they have a Spanish last name and were ruled by Spain just like Mexico, then they must be part Spanish just like the Mexicans...so they feel the mixing is one and the same as what has happen with Mexico and all of the populous in the Philippines are half-breeds. The truth is, prior to the opening of the Suez Canal, the Philippines was far away in the middle of Timbuktu...only 3-5% of a small group of full-blooded Spanish ruled and controlled the Philippines for 300+ years. Only certain sections of the Philippines were heavily mixed... we were seen as indios, which means they saw us natives as of a lesser race and class. 90% of us are still full blooded native. We are not like the Mexicans. There were actually more Chinese then Spanish in the islands and long before them...you can clearly see our people were not of heavily mixed with Chinese descent. Were some Yaqui or Aztecs sent to Philippines...sure. Enough to populate and effect an entire race and stake claim they are now the Macabebes?...certainly not.

Are you sure you are Ilocano?...(Illacano's?) I certainly would think a person who is Ilocano would know how to spell their own group. Sorry, I just find that funny. I am of Ilocano and Tagalog decent.

[VeeVee]

Gents,

I think the original post by Legionnaire may have originated from a private discussion between him and Art. Art is a lifetime member of the Philippine Scout Heritage Society and is descended from Macabebes. His father was also with the 45th Infantry PS in Bataan. In some past PSHS commemorative events, he had attended in a Macabebe scout impression which raised the question to some that they are not necessarily the same, and may mislead some people who may not know better. Legionnaire may just be bringing up that point to Art.

Art of course is proud of his heritage and is also a reenactor. Have Macabebe impression - will join the fun. Nothing wrong with that. Just some concern that the impression may mislead some people as to who the Philippine Scouts were.

So that my friends is the point of the thread.

With that in mind, the more well read and researched guys can enlighten us about what the deal really is with the Macabebes.

26th was born and raised in the US. He can't spell Ilocano. He may have been verbally told that he's Ilocano and just going by the phonetic sound of the word. So give him a break.

I'm also Ilocano/Tagalog descent. Born and raised in Quezon City. Can spell. ;D

-victor

[26th]

Thanks for my back Victor.

I missed spelled Ilocano in my haste to reply dimasalang and did not do my proper spell check.

It seems he knew what I was talking about spelled wrong or not. To throw that back that way, shows a lot of his character.

But I do still love this forum.

I meant the Spanish moved people around from the countries they conquered.

Yaqui go home!!! Oops, did I mean Yankee???

Anyone know Austin Craig?

Goodnight all

Rudy

[mish]

Aug 4, 2008 0:29:26 GMT -5 26th said:

Anyone know Austin Craig?

Sir,

Austin Craig belongs to what we referred to then (the early 1990s) as "historians of the old school." If you look him up on the 'net, you'll see numerous references to his work on Philippine subjects, with his works on Rizal being prominent.

As history students, we were exposed to his work in our professors' efforts to illustrate what "Philippine history from a foreigner's perspective" is, and what the attendant pitfalls of this school were.

As a gatherer of primary information, Craig is good. As an interpreter of what he gathers, though, his framework and conclusions don't carry much weight in contemporary historical circles.

[RayAdillO]

1) In those days there were only two galleons a year going from Mexico to the Philippines.

2) Portage and cargo space was very expensive. Unless the Yaqui indians were intended to be sold as slaves, there would have been no return of investment or profit from shipping an entire tribe from Mexico to the Philippines.

3) "Indians" were seldom ever imported or exported into slave labor. The Spanish either pacified the local indians or exterminated them where they were, and when they could.

It was reckoned by slave traders that "Indians" easily die from diseases and/or were lazy and therefore unsuitable for the slave market. No paying "customer" would buy them.

4) The "Mexican" people who went to the Philippines were already the "mestizos" who were recruited by the Spanish to serve as garrison troops guarding the walled city of Intramuros or some other forlorn Spanish outpost, They were not called "Kastila" by the Filipino locals, they were called "Chichenengos".

5) During the 16th century up to the 1860s, most of the "Spanish" regiments in the Philippines were actually made up of Mexican mestizos. There were very few common soldiers who were actually "peninsular" Spaniards. There were more Spanish priests than Spanish soldiers in the Philippines. Only the high government and military officialdom were peninsulars. (ex. The artillery sergeant who lead that revolt in Cavite was a Mexican-Spaniard).

6) It was only when Latin America gained independence plus the opening of the Suez canal that there came an influx of peninsular Spanish soldiers and civilians into the Philippines. Before that, the Philippines was simply too far away that it was even administered by the vice-royalty of Mexico and not directly by the Spanish crown in Madrid.

7) And finally, the Yaqui tribe is still in Mexico.

[26th]

Ray and Mish:

Thanks for all your information. Very simple and easy to read for this old guy.

Mish, yea I looked him up but I was trying to find his source for those Yaqui's. Sound;s like all you boy's went to college. One of the thing's I missed. Like taking Philippine History classes.

I liked your stuff Ray, but "maybe, maybe one Yaqui mestizo made it to be a scout and that was the one they showed in the book. Even his nose looks Indian. ha ha. Sometimes history is not written down. Sometimes history is verbal, the Indians used this form for eons and they were true. Sometimes some things are not gospel for us that are in the future of when things happened in the past.

My dad mentioned verbally that he was a Scout. No papers, no pictures and no one to back him when I was growing up. No one believed him. But when he was dying, I did some searching and found his discharge paper that he was in the service. The world of my family Philippine history opened up beyond my dreams.

While looking in the net I found the attached article and thought you would like it, if you have not of course seen it or known about it. If they came to Mexico they went to the Philippines.

I think this is another outfit for your closet Ray. Next time in Fort MacArthur you guys might find me in the Mexican section.

Enjoy and keep on a writing. By the way I am a one finger typist so when you guys see my articles in took some effort and correcting. ha ha

Rudy/Blood of Troopers

[dimasalang]

Aug 4, 2008 0:29:26 GMT -5 26th said:

I missed spelled Ilocano in my haste to reply dimasalang and did not do my proper spell check.

It seems he knew what I was talking about spelled wrong or not. To throw that back that way, shows a lot of his character.

26th, I am sorry if I sounded sarcastic towards you. I really did not mean it and I know and I hoped you saw it as a friendly joke. I know mis-spelling is a common thing when it comes to chatting and forum posting..I know I do it a lot. Cant tell you how many times I would go back and re-edit my posts. I also know it is challenging and difficult to express ones self through typing with out sounding distasteful...I am trying to work on this. Sorry about that.

I know this forum is for sharing information. But I do not see anything wrong with a debate, which I also feel this is what this forum is used for. You can see how the statement "The Macabebes, were never native to the Philippines." can draw a great debate on this forum.

[legionnaire]

.because it is of my belief the Macabebe people were both, the original "Native Scouts" and the original "Philippine Scouts". not "Macabebe Scouts"?

To throw that back that way, shows a lot of his character.

NOW HERE IS A FACT!

Philip

[VeeVee]

Hey be nice haha

We should all get together over some San Miguel. Pure forum text sometimes can get mis-read.

How did a Pampanga town get named Mexico anyway? And what about the town incredibly named Sexmoan, Pampanga? It would be hard to keep a straight face when telling someone "I'm from Sexmoan, Pampanga"

[26th]

dimasalang

One thing I learn as a politician for four years in my home town and living with firemen for 30 years is "not" to take anything personal. We would of had more fist fights than fires. Even then if one happened it was more principle than personal.

Your right a debate is good if it is civil. Maybe a misspelling also in that quote you mentioned. I read it as "some" Macabebe scouts maybe of Yaqui descendants or like Ray says "Mexican mestizos". It sure in the heck can be possible. Unless in can be disproved, legends will always come first to me. ha ha

Anyway keep on a posting and I am gonna keep on a reading as they say down south.

Boots and Saddles Ray

Rudy/26th Cavalry

[RayAdillO]

Well Rudy, that the Macabebes have indigenous Mexican blood in their veins is more than just possible. If a single Spanish priest in a lonely parish mission can do wonders to the gene pool of his flock of natives, what more a Mexican soldier in the Philippines or a Filipino sailor in Mexico far away from their own womenfolk?....now I mean this in a positive and "matter-a-factly" way.

But really, indigenous tribal rivalries in the Philippines have existed long even before the Spanish came to the Philippines. It could be that the Mexican blooded guy which started the legend merely "inherited" the feud from the pre-existing local tribe he married into and consequently influenced so dramatically.

To trace the "feud" to the notion that a tribe was of "foreign" origination somehow implies that it was transplanted "lock-stock and barrel" from somewhere else, and that would mean a whole community complete with women and children (and maybe even livestock).

[26th]

No yelling Philip/

San Miguel is right on target Victor.

Ray, most interesting comment. Could it be that a few Mexican mestizos did end up in that area and just called themselves or other people did "Macabebes" or of Macabebe desendants or from the Macabebe area.? Then they were recruited and just called Macabebe scouts? Could of only have been a squad or so.

Just thinking out loud.

A whole family or two and livestock breeding or like you say having fun for a few years. The possibilities!!!

Only 200 filipino's in Mexico in article and maybe 200,000 now in less the 200 years.

We need a time machine.

Hey Victor when I go back to DC San Miguel on you to find for us.

Philip/ NO YELLING AGAIN. ha ha