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Post by insurrectomad on Mar 3, 2009 10:25:27 GMT -5
I can understand the American reluctance to shed light on the war in the Phil. but not the lack of interest or knowlege shown by students & people in the Phils. My asawa's brothers and our nephews couldn't name any patriot commanders from Pampanga! This despite having famous ancestors. Family name David (Lt. Col. Eduardo G. David), Nanay's family =Garcia, Col. Francisco Tanedo was my father-in -law's uncle. F. Tanedo has a street in Tarlac named in his honour. Died fighting the Spaniards. In Brit. it's the "The Troubles" during the Irish Rebellion 1916-1923 that shoveled under the carpet. The barbaric terror of the 'Black & Tans' is still something not spoken of in in UK. The Dark side of the Nat. Hero, Winston Churchill whose dad had estates in Ireland sanctioned savage reprisals for acts of rebellion. Brits. troops were a scratch force, dressed in khaki army jackets and dark blue police trousers & Guinness stout beer mixed with a light ale was a popular drink =Black & Tan! Every country has skeletons in the closet.
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Post by VeeVee on Mar 25, 2009 22:06:32 GMT -5
Posting for Macky. More maps and research items. Hi Macky, go ahead and just put your comments in. Click for bigger SI LAWTON, SI QUEZON AT ANG CONSTITUTION HILLS (By: Mr. Leopoldo O. Hosalla) On the morning of December 19, 1899 a tall American soldier was standing on a bluff of a high ground overlooking the Marikina River. Looking at the uniform he is wearing, one can discern that he was a high ranking military officer. That officer was Gen. Henry Lawton the commander of the Provisionary Regiment of the U.S. army that attacks San Mateo on December 19, 1899. This Regiment was composed of one battalion each of the 27th and 29th Inf. USV, one squadron each of mounted and dismounted 11th Cavalry and of course his bodyguards composed of his staff officers and the troop I 4th Cavalry. Their primary mission was to attack San Mateo a small town located about eighteen miles northeast of Manila in the valley of the Marikina River. The main body of his army was camp a few meters away from the bluff where he was standing. When the General saw how the land lay, he went back to his tent and discussed to his men how to attack San Mateo. He ordered his Infantry under the command of Lt. Col. Sargent to move and deployed at the bottom opposite San Mateo while the dismounted cavalry was ordered to cross the river above enter the town from the north and cut off the escape of the garrison. His cavalry under the command of Col. Lockett was to divide like a V as they advance to the river and ordered to cross as quickly as possible since the river was rising rapidly. The plan of the General was brilliant! But somehow due to the natural defenses of the town, the rising water of the San Mateo River and the stiff resistance of the Filipino fighters in San Mateo, the execution of the attack were delayed and stalled for hours. This delay prompted the General to come down from his camp at the high ground and with a white horse survey again the area. At 9:30 in the morning December 19, 1899 Gen. Lawton was shot dead by Gen. Geronimo’s men the Tiradores Dela Muerte. He was shot near the merging river north of the Filipino position. A Filipino Tiradores assigned to Pick-Off (Picadores) selected targets was credited for the kill; his name was Pvt. Bonifacio Mariano. He was shot dead later on his position at the top of a tree. Forty Years later after the Filipino-American war, another man stood on that same ground where the General was standing. This man is the visionary first President of the Philippine Commonwealth, Manuel Luis Quezon. Unlike the first man who stood in the bluff, his was not to attack San Mateo but rather he is dreaming to build a great metropolis in the area. Early one day in July 1939, accompanied by a handful of his friends, President Manuel Quezon took a stroll in the area known to the Americans in 1899 as the high ground. Today the area was called the “Constitution Hills” which is now part of Barangay Batasan Hills in Quezon City. Accordingly, “he was struck silent by the views and when he found his voice again he exclaimed this is where I would like to build a real Filipino Metropolis!” He intended to put all his Government Buildings in the area and make it the Capitol of his Commonwealth Government. It was a grand dream! But sadly this dream of Quezon was stalled on its progress and never materialized due to lack of funds, The Second World War and his untimely death in America. (Base on the Historical Research of Mr. Sumaquel Hosalla in the area)
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Post by Sumaquel P Hosalla on Mar 28, 2009 4:32:08 GMT -5
Si Lawton, si Quezon at ang Constitution Hills ay isang sanaysay na tumatalakay sa ugnayan sa kasaysayan ng mga nabanggit na tao at lugar. Ipinapakita nito ang kahalagahan sa kasaysayan ng lugar kung saan ngayon nakatindig ang Batasang Pambansa.
Sa kasalukuyan marami ang di nakakaalam sa kahalagahan ng makasaysayang pook na ito. Sa lugar na ito tumindig at nag-usisa si Hen. Henry Lawton noong umaga ng Disyembre 19, 1899 bago niya atakihin ang bayan ng San Mateo.
Makalipas ang apat-napung taon, sa lugar ding ito nagkaroon ng isang pangitain si Presidente Manuel Quezon. “Dito, ayon sa kanya ay itatayo niya ang isang marangyang siudad para sa mga Pilipino”
Limampung-taon pagkamatay ni Lawton ay itinayo sa lugar ang mga pundasyon ng kauna-unahang gusali ng Batasang Pambansa.(Legislative Building)
Sa ngayon ang lugar ay Tinatawag na Constitution Hills at bahagi na ng Bgy. Batasan Hills Quezon City. Dito matatagpuan ang Batasang Pambansa ang tahanan ng mga Representante at mga mambabatas ng Pilipinas.
----Sumaquel P. Hosalla----
Trans:
Si Lawton, si Quezon at ang Constitution Hills is a Historical Essay that relates the historical connections of the said personalities and place. It explain the historical significance of the area where the Legislative Building is now standing.
Today, many are not aware of these Historical Facts. On this place Gen. Lawton planned the attack of San Mateo. He view and study the terrain of San Mateo somewhere on the edge of that high hill. (Constitution Hills)
After Forty Years, on that same ground, President Manuel Quezon had a vision and accordingly he said, “This is where I would like to build a real Filipino Metropolis”.
In 1953, fifthty three years after the death of Lawton. The foundation of the Legislative Building were erected in the area. Today they call the place as the constitution Hills; here you will find the Batasan Pambansa, the place of the lower house of the Philippine Congress, the House of Representatives.
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Post by Sumaquel P Hosalla on Mar 28, 2009 5:36:12 GMT -5
The americans called it "The Bluff" or "The High Ground". They described its location as "The Hill opposite of San Mateo" and "bluff a mile west of San Mateo".
Photos Above
1st Photo above - The contemporary Photo Sattelite that shows san mateo and its adjacent hill.(the Constitution Hills)---The blue square in the middle is "The Lawton's Monument"---
2nd Photo above - The Constitution Hills, inside of it is the Batasan Pambansa Complex.(At the tip of this complex is the hill opposite san mateo, Lawton stood somewhere in that area to study the terrain of san mateo---as well as Quezon---)
3rd Photo above - San Mateo and its Battlefield. To the west is the adjacent Hill, "The constitution Hill".
Middle Photo's
1st Photo - Quezon City Map, with the constitution Hill.(Mark as Capitol Constitution Hill)
2nd and 3rd Photo - Quezon City map with constitution Hill and its adjacent town, San Mateo.
Photo Below
1st Photo below - Documentary evidence about Quezon and the Constitution Hill.
2nd Photo below - Documentary evidence that tells us the location of the camp of Gen. LAwton(Bluff west of san mateo---The Constitution Hill in the contemporary Photo satellite---) before they attack san mateo.
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Post by VeeVee on Apr 1, 2009 7:14:57 GMT -5
It would be nice if ABS-CBN would produce an Independence Day special about this. Kind of like a History Channel's Battlefield Detectives series. Heck there should be a series with other battlefields too. If I were rich, that's what I'd do with my time, produce a TV series like this.
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Post by sumaquel on Nov 16, 2009 20:54:49 GMT -5
LAWTON'S 3RD UNKNOWN BATTALION IN SAN MATEO
General Edwards, Lawton's chief of staff, gave a Washington correspondent of the Indianapolis Star his account of the incident as follows:
"San Mateo is about twenty miles northeast of Manila and only a few miles north of the pumping station of the Manila waterworks. The town had been twice taken and abandoned. A small expeditionary force under command of Gen. Lawton left Manila at night to retake it. The force consisted of two squadrons of cavalry and three battalions of infantry.
--The California Military Museum--
According to the official report of the Americans, Gen. Lawton's men at the time of the attack was composed of one battalion each of 27th and the 29th Inf, one mounted and one dismounted of the 11th cavalry.
But according to Gen. Edwards, Chief of Staff of Gen. Lawton(an insider to Lawtons Camp)He had at least three battalions with him in San Mateo with ofcores two more units of cavalry.
What unit is this?(I mean the 3rd shadowy battalion of Gen. Lawton in San Mateo)
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Post by VeeVee on Nov 17, 2009 21:15:30 GMT -5
Could he have thought that the dismounted 11th cavalry unit was the third "infantry" battalion?
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Post by sumaquel on Nov 19, 2009 6:02:49 GMT -5
Maybe Veevee, but military men seldom make mistake in identifying their unit specially in war.
Here are some comparison:
Annual Report : 2 squadron of Cavalry(One Mounted and one dismounted) and two Battalions of Infantry(27th USV and 29th USV) ---- Total 4 units
Gen. Edwards statement : 2 Squadrons of Cavalry(Unit was not mentioned but possibly the mounted and dismounted cavalry) and three battalions of Infantry(27th USV, 29th USV and one squadron of cavalry). --- Total 5 units
*Sa statement ni Gen. Edwards, sobra pa rin ng isang unit o may di pa rin na a-identify na unit since nabilang na nga yung isang cavalry bilang isang battalion ng infantry.
Ano kayang unit yun? he he he
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Post by sumaquel on Nov 21, 2009 19:22:07 GMT -5
I was with David Banaghan last night in Mega Mall(We were guest Reenactors in the IPMS Competition)I have a brief chance to talk with him about Gen. Geronimo Battle of San Mateo and the Tiradores Dela Muerte.
While he was talking on stage, I learned on him the possibility that the Tiradores dela muerte were being commanded by their British commander(McDonald's)using a distinctive sound of a whistle
He had this small whistle that according to him were being used by the British military in 1800 to command their troops in the battlefield.
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Post by sumaquel on Nov 23, 2009 9:15:27 GMT -5
I have this notion that the Filipinos were equip with this whistle to communicate in the field as what they have done in Santa mesa during/before the outbreak of the Filipino-American war.
Here's some excerpt from G. Dumindin Web page:
Grayson said: "About eight o'clock, Miller and I were cautiously pacing our district. We came to a fence and were trying to see what the Filipinos were up to. Suddenly, near at hand, on our left, there was a low but unmistakable Filipino outpost signal whistle. It was immediately answered by a similar whistle about twenty-five yards to the right. Then a red lantern flashed a signal from blockhouse number 7. We had never seen such a sign used before.
In a moment, something rose up slowly in front of us. It was a Filipino. I yelled 'Halt!' and made it pretty loud, for I was accustomed to challenging the officer of the guard in approved military style. I challenged him with another loud 'halt!' Then he shouted 'halto!' to me. Well, I thought the best thing to do was to shoot him. He dropped. If I didn't kill him, I guess he died of fright.
Two Filipinos sprang out of the gateway about 15 feet from us. I called 'halt!' and Miller fired and dropped one. I saw that another was left. Well, I think I got my second Filipino that time...." [LEFT, front-page report in the Freedom, Feb. 16, 1899, published in Manila by the US Army].
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Post by sumaquel on Dec 1, 2009 11:03:06 GMT -5
I read this article of J. Alvin Inacay Bautista in American Chronicle entitled: Appointment with Destiny: General Lawton: Geronimo's Nemesis. I was so surprised to read from him the account on Pvt. Bonifacio Mariano.
I don't know where did he get his information, pero wow! kalat na pala since matagpuan ko ang tungkol sa kanya(Pvt. Bonifacio Mariano)last September 2007.
As far as I remember, I gave my research materials on Bonifacio Mariano only to four people that I know.
I send one copy each to Kevin and Richard.(And also to victor on this forum) And the other is to Ginoong Arnaldo Dumindin(I'm always grateful to Ginoong Dumindin for giving me credits to all the photo's that I send him about the battle of San Mateo, Gen. Licerio Geronimo, Pvt. Bonifacio Mariano and the Tiradores Dela Muerte.)
Anyway, OK lang naman sakin ang i-share mga research ko(kahit na walang recognition or credits)since that I don't have the capacity to write books and articles(sila na lang ang gumawa he he he). Ito lang naman kasi talaga ang intensyon ko, ang maitama ang mali, mailabas ang katotohanan at mailugar sa tamang kinalalagyan ang mga taong nalimot na ng kasaysayan.
Pvt. Bonifacio Mariano was actually a Hero, He died in that battle(battle of San Mateo)siya ang itinuturo ng mga early katipuneros in San Mateo na siyang nakabaril at nakapatay kay Gen. Henry Lawton.
Ang problema, he was not well remembered in our history. During one of my field research in San Mateo I ask people about him and to my surprised they did not know him he he he...Ang alam lang nila kalye na B. Mariano.
I was totally amazed when I learned that there was account about him,(about the man who shot and killed Gen. Lawton)My God!!for more than 100 years...imagine di siya kilala ng mga filipino...(pero si Lawton, di maliligaw ang filipino, sasabihin lang sa bus driver "mama sa Lawton lang po") he he he
I hope he find his place in history, I hope kilalanin na siya ng mga Filipino Historians, I hope na mailagay na siya sa mga libro at aklat na ipinanglilinang natin sa ating mga kabataan, I hope makilala na siya ng mga filipino as one of the heroes of the battle of san mateo....
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Post by sumaquel on Dec 3, 2009 12:58:02 GMT -5
Maybe Veevee, but military men seldom make mistake in identifying their unit specially in war. Here are some comparison: Annual Report : 2 squadron of Cavalry(One Mounted and one dismounted) and two Battalions of Infantry(27th USV and 29th USV) ---- Total 4 unitsGen. Edwards statement : 2 Squadrons of Cavalry(Unit was not mentioned but possibly the mounted and dismounted cavalry) and three battalions of Infantry(27th USV, 29th USV and one squadron of cavalry). --- Total 5 units*Sa statement ni Gen. Edwards, sobra pa rin ng isang unit o may di pa rin na a-identify na unit since nabilang na nga yung isang cavalry bilang isang battalion ng infantry. Ano kayang unit yun? he he he Let me go back here from my original topic. I have here documents saying that the Troop I 4th Cavalry(Escort of Gen. Lawton)are involve in the battle of san mateo. Ang problema maliit na unit lang ito na binubuo ng isang Company(Company I)ng 4th Cavalry. Ang hinahanap ko ay isang nawawalang Squadron(Ang isang squadron ay binubuo ng 2 hanggang 4 na Company ng Cavalry, katumbas ito ng isang Battalion ng Infantry)ni Lawton na. Mahalaga ba ito? Yes mahalaga, you will learn later na mahalagang malaman ang total strength ng army ni Lawton ng lusubin niya ang san mateo. THE BLUFF OR THE HIGH GROUND According to the official reports of the Americans, he(Gen. Lawton)concentrated his command on the place they called "the bluff or the high grounds" opposite San Mateo. Obviously the place that they are referring to is the Batasan Pambansa Complex(Constitution Hills)which is on the high ground and fronting directly opposite to San Mateo. Ano bang kahalagahan ng lugar na ito?base on my study in the area, the place is very strategic since ito lang ang lugar na dinadaanan ng mga taga san mateo papuntang maynila.(the only trail to manila)Ideal ito bilang isang "advance outpost" ng mga americano. Maliban pa sa mga nabanggit na kahalagahan, mataas ang lugar at directang nakaharap sa san mateo. Dahil dito maaari nilang ma-check ang galaw ng mga tauhan ni Gen. Licerio Geronimo sa San Mateo. The area is huge and I think they need at least two or three companies if not one battalion of Infantry/cavalry to guard or to totally close this trail to manila. So,It is in my opinion base on this argument and yo what I have here(documents)that the place was already an establish American outpost in the area. Ibig sabihin bago pa dumating si Gen. Lawton sa lugar meron nang naka-estasyong at least dalawa o tatlong unit kung di man isang batalyon ng mga sundalong amerikano sa lugar. THE SAN MATEO POBLASYON AND SAN MATEO MONTALBAN LINE Fronting them below is the San Mateo Poblasyon and San Mateo Montalban line. Guarding this line is the Gen. Geronimo's Brigade with at least one Company of his Special Unit the Tiradores Dela Muerte.(According to Col. James Parker, this special unit of Gen. Geronimo were trained by a British national named McDonald. It is said that this trained sharpshooters is deadly because it can still hit a person standing within 800 yards). THE BATTLE OF SAN MATEO Contrary to what the Americans would trying to say, the battle of San Mateo is a huge battle that involves two towns of San Mateo and one entire brigade of the republican army. My rough estimate on the strength of Gen. Geronimo's men is at least 2000 if not 3000 men. My estimate is base on the statement of G. Eddie Ocampo during his interview with the "Philippines Geographic" saying that his Lolo led Thousands(Thousand in plural form)of men and to the statement of the General itself during his last known interview in 1925 saying that he lost thousands(In plural form)of men in the battle.(If he lost thousands of men in San Mateo, then whats left of him after the battle?) Walang katotohanan ang mga sinasabi ng mga amerikano na 500 lang(200 were armed with rifle)ang kalaban nila sa san mateo noong umaga ng December 29, 1899. It was an understatement referring to the defender of San Mateo poblasyon(the americans calls it as san mateo garrison)and not to the defender of the entire san mateo line which compose of san mateo poblasyon, san mateo montalban and its surrounding areas. It is in my opinion, base on what I have here today(documents)that the place was already an establish American outpost on the area.
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Post by sumaquel on Dec 3, 2009 13:17:17 GMT -5
Walang katotohanan ang mga sinasabi ng mga amerikano na 500 lang(200 were armed with rifle)ang kalaban nila sa san mateo noong umaga ng December 29, 1899. It was an understatement referring only to the defender of San Mateo poblasyon(they call it san mateo garrison)and not to the defender of the entire san mateo lines which include san mateo poblasyon, san mateo montalban and its surrounding areas.
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Post by sumaquel on Dec 5, 2009 2:21:23 GMT -5
Maybe Veevee, but military men seldom make mistake in identifying their unit specially in war. Here are some comparison: Annual Report : 2 squadron of Cavalry(One Mounted and one dismounted) and two Battalions of Infantry(27th USV and 29th USV) ---- Total 4 unitsGen. Edwards statement : 2 Squadrons of Cavalry(Unit was not mentioned but possibly the mounted and dismounted cavalry) and three battalions of Infantry(27th USV, 29th USV and one squadron of cavalry). --- Total 5 units*Sa statement ni Gen. Edwards, sobra pa rin ng isang unit o may di pa rin na a-identify na unit since nabilang na nga yung isang cavalry bilang isang battalion ng infantry. Ano kayang unit yun? he he he Let me go back here from my original topic. I have here documents saying that the Troop I 4th Cavalry(Escort of Gen. Lawton)are involve in the battle of san mateo. Ang problema maliit na unit lang ito na binubuo ng isang Company(Company I)ng 4th Cavalry. Ang hinahanap ko ay isang nawawalang Squadron(Ang isang squadron ay binubuo ng 2 hanggang 4 na Company ng Cavalry, katumbas ito ng isang Battalion ng Infantry)ni Lawton na. Mahalaga ba ito? Yes mahalaga, you will learn later na mahalagang malaman ang total strength ng army ni Lawton ng lusubin niya ang san mateo. THE BLUFF OR THE HIGH GROUND According to the official reports of the Americans, he(Gen. Lawton)concentrated his command on the place they called "the bluff or the high grounds" opposite San Mateo. Obviously the place that they are referring to is the Batasan Pambansa Complex(Constitution Hills)which is on the high ground and fronting directly opposite to San Mateo. Ano bang kahalagahan ng lugar na ito?base on my study in the area, the place is very strategic since ito lang ang lugar na dinadaanan ng mga taga san mateo papuntang maynila.(the only trail to manila)Ideal ito bilang isang "advance outpost" ng mga americano. Maliban pa sa mga nabanggit na kahalagahan, mataas ang lugar at directang nakaharap sa san mateo. Dahil dito maaari nilang ma-check ang galaw ng mga tauhan ni Gen. Licerio Geronimo sa San Mateo. The area is huge and I think they need at least two or three companies if not one battalion of Infantry/cavalry to guard or to totally close this trail to manila. So,It is in my opinion base on this argument and yo what I have here(documents)that the place was already an establish American outpost in the area. Ibig sabihin bago pa dumating si Gen. Lawton sa lugar meron nang naka-estasyong at least dalawa o tatlong unit kung di man isang batalyon ng mga sundalong amerikano sa lugar. After the second battle of manila the 3rd zone command of Gen. Geronimo retreated to Marikina, san Mateo poblasyon and San Mateo montalban. After the retreat, the Americans forces occupy San Francisco Del Monte and Novaliches area and re-establish their perimeters by establishing advance-outpost fronting their enemy lines. And one of this outpost is the batasan hills-payatas area.(the high ground)The Dinweiddie battle map indicates a small trail to manila, and it is in my opinion that the Americans occupy the place(high grounds)in order to check the movement of the Filipino army below and on the same time sealed-of this small trail to manila. But the area is huge(the high ground or the batasan hills-payatas area)and the army below is large, so it is in my opinion that they need more troops to Garrison the area. Kailangan nila ng maraming tao sa lugar in order to check any impending attack on manila. Sa tala ni Col. James Parker, during the August attack on san mateo sinabi niya na may nakaantabay na dalawang unit ng dismounted cavalry sa lugar(high ground or the batasan hills-payatas area)di binanggit kung permanenteng nakagarison ang unit na yun duon pero kung pagbabatayan ang aking argumento malamang meron nga. At ang dalawang unit ng dismounted cavalry na ito sa ilalim ng isang "Captain Rivers" ay malamang na siyang nakatalaga sa lugar para bantayan o manmanan ang mga pilipino. Di kaya naidagdag ang dalawang unit na ito ni Captain Rivers sa 4th Cavalry ni Lawon kaya naging isang squadron?Hmmm kung totoo ito solve na ang problema. Magiging lima nga ang unit na dala niya ng atakihin ang san mateo; 2 squadron of cavalry under Col. Lockett(11th Cavalry & 4th Cavalry--troop I augmented by most probably two dismounted cavalry ni Capt. Rivers) 3 Battalions of Infantry under Lt. Col. Sargent(27th USV, 29th USV and one squadron of dismounted 11th cavalry)
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Post by VeeVee on Dec 7, 2009 17:06:00 GMT -5
Posting for Macky. More maps of detailed research. Thanks Macky. Click for bigger
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jxm
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by jxm on Dec 14, 2009 1:16:51 GMT -5
Interesting piece on the Battle of Paye
First of all kudos to everyone on a well researched material presented on this forum. You have taken the analysis that past historians and researchers dare to tread. anyways here is my piece on the issues.
A. Bluff or High Ground The ridge on constitution hill is a sharp one as it part of a faultline that created the marikina river. Several points should be established
1. Defenders of San Mateo probably (or must) design the breast works (above ground trenches as the water table is low) along the possible crossing points of the river to deter a cavalry charge. The position of the breastworks should be situated along the horse wading depth of river. The mere fact that constitution hills area is a river crossing trail to novaliches and balintawak dictates that this part of the river is shallow that it should be established as the primary strong point for the defenders.
2. If you take the panoramic view from san mateo to QC, the ridge constitutes as a bluff which at the same time is the high ground predominant in the area. Geographically, the top of the ridge (the Bluff) conceals the general approach to the crossing point, then a steep ridge snaked by a trail (almost a kilometer long) leveling to a flood plain. Tactically the engagement would have not occured if the american forces have not deployed on the flood plain to shorten the engagement distance from 1Km to 300m.
3. Lawton in military terms is canalized to a few options which were a. Establish the bluff as cover fire base as it has a commanding terrain over the engagement space. b. Lawtons men have to pass through the downhill trail exposing them into enfilade fire. It is prudent to cross first the infantry than the cavalry down this trail. the infantry advance can only be done by moving from cover to cover beside the downhill trail. c. The flood plain across the san mateo line should be scoured for possible cover and defilade positions d. Final recon should be done by battalion scouts and cavalry marshals to establish infantry and cavalry crossing points before the final push is initiated i.e. the river crossing. e. the cavalry deployment, establish long range cover fire along the breastworks, rush the cavalry along the trail, marshal the cavalry left and right to the flanks and to the starting line of the cavalry crossing points. f. The final push, The second tempo of cover fire should signal the final crossing of the infatry, the redployment of additional artillery in the flood plain, once the initial elements of the infantry reached the other bank, an infantry attack will be made, then flanking crossings of the cavalry will be made. Thus making a general attack on the whole line. g. The other option is to wait for a superior force, utilized existing forces and formations to establish a parallel line. lawton did not like this option as he may be out officered by such an option (by a superior general) and made do with forces at hand. He is then canalized to make the decisions he made. Gen Geronimo utilized the river as an offensive obstacle.
It could be safely established that lawton reached step D, he could have commanded the whole effort from the bluff, but it seems that infantry deployment was a disarray that he has to move his command post to the flood plain. Also, direct fire artillery will have a hard time correctly elevating from the bluff to engage the breastworks, he must have moved them too along with the infantry. Moving the artillery ammunition would have been a lousy affair by itself.
When Pvt Mariano engaged Lawton he must have been leapfrogging from positions across the river to organize the infantry crossing.
B.The missing battalion Forces in the Fil-Am war like the civil war was organized along officer lines not along organic formations. i.e. if Lawton have a spare colonel at hand as he approached San Mateo, if he needed a seperate thrust he could organize a provisional formation. The terrain and adversary will demand he could have organized an extra battalion or cavalry squadron. This can be seen in context as field radios were not available then, seperate missions in a battle must be officer led so there is less over head on command communications. For the provisional commander, it is the break you needed as it can get you promoted to a higher command or formation as you have exhibited performance under fire.
C. Engagement distance of 300m and the hide position of PVt Mariano
The san mateo line to san mateo poblacion is a flat flood plain. From the bluff across the river, it is clearly seen that commanding fire can be made to prevent retreat(the arty guys will not have a problem elevating their pieces). But upon deployment of infantry along the other bank of the river, lawton must have realized that the defenders have the upper hand. Deploying marksmen on tree tops (artificial high ground) gives Gen Geronimo's the chance to effectively harass any organized effort to initiate the infantry crossing. And this is where Pvt Mariano was effective. Pvt Mariano was able to established a kill zone incidentally where Gen Lawton intends to establish a lane for the crossing (may be a piece of open ground leading to the shallow parts of the river)
D. Death of Pvt Mariano His firing position must have been detected and pvt mariano made the mistake of not relocating after several engagements. 1. He was in a concealed position not a covered position he can be easily engaged by artillery once is general area was established. 2.The battle space is orientated east to west, before noon his concealment was effective but after noon the sun angle will eventually give him away to accurate counter sniper fire. 3. Who ever was commanding the tiradores del muerte did not have the tactical sense not to be loyal to effective positions as he is commanding a force multiplier, he held the position too long. 4. Gen Geronimo, could have established a counter attack or a raid when the deployment of Gen Lawton went to disarray. But this is debatable as he may not have officers that can lead the counterattack or raid further military doctrine of the time does not espouse maneuver warfare. But one thing is sure, the victory may have been better if he did. He could have enveloped the flanks of lawton then harassed the trapped infantry or raid the lower artillery positions then quickly withdraw back to the line.
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Post by sumaquel on Dec 14, 2009 9:32:42 GMT -5
Interesting piece on the Battle of Paye First of all kudos to everyone on a well researched material presented on this forum. You have taken the analysis that past historians and researchers dare to tread. anyways here is my piece on the issues. A. Bluff or High Ground The ridge on constitution hill is a sharp one as it part of a faultline that created the marikina river. Several points should be established 1. Defenders of San Mateo probably (or must) design the breast works (above ground trenches as the water table is low) along the possible crossing points of the river to deter a cavalry charge. The position of the breastworks should be situated along the horse wading depth of river. The mere fact that constitution hills area is a river crossing trail to novaliches and balintawak dictates that this part of the river is shallow that it should be established as the primary strong point for the defenders. 2. If you take the panoramic view from san mateo to QC, the ridge constitutes as a bluff which at the same time is the high ground predominant in the area. Geographically, the top of the ridge (the Bluff) conceals the general approach to the crossing point, then a steep ridge snaked by a trail (almost a kilometer long) leveling to a flood plain. Tactically the engagement would have not occured if the american forces have not deployed on the flood plain to shorten the engagement distance from 1Km to 300m. 3. Lawton in military terms is canalized to a few options which were a. Establish the bluff as cover fire base as it has a commanding terrain over the engagement space. b. Lawtons men have to pass through the downhill trail exposing them into enfilade fire. It is prudent to cross first the infantry than the cavalry down this trail. the infantry advance can only be done by moving from cover to cover beside the downhill trail. c. The flood plain across the san mateo line should be scoured for possible cover and defilade positions d. Final recon should be done by battalion scouts and cavalry marshals to establish infantry and cavalry crossing points before the final push is initiated i.e. the river crossing. e. the cavalry deployment, establish long range cover fire along the breastworks, rush the cavalry along the trail, marshal the cavalry left and right to the flanks and to the starting line of the cavalry crossing points. f. The final push, The second tempo of cover fire should signal the final crossing of the infatry, the redployment of additional artillery in the flood plain, once the initial elements of the infantry reached the other bank, an infantry attack will be made, then flanking crossings of the cavalry will be made. Thus making a general attack on the whole line. g. The other option is to wait for a superior force, utilized existing forces and formations to establish a parallel line. lawton did not like this option as he may be out officered by such an option (by a superior general) and made do with forces at hand. He is then canalized to make the decisions he made. Gen Geronimo utilized the river as an offensive obstacle. It could be safely established that lawton reached step D, he could have commanded the whole effort from the bluff, but it seems that infantry deployment was a disarray that he has to move his command post to the flood plain. Also, direct fire artillery will have a hard time correctly elevating from the bluff to engage the breastworks, he must have moved them too along with the infantry. Moving the artillery ammunition would have been a lousy affair by itself. When Pvt Mariano engaged Lawton he must have been leapfrogging from positions across the river to organize the infantry crossing. B.The missing battalion Forces in the Fil-Am war like the civil war was organized along officer lines not along organic formations. i.e. if Lawton have a spare colonel at hand as he approached San Mateo, if he needed a seperate thrust he could organize a provisional formation. The terrain and adversary will demand he could have organized an extra battalion or cavalry squadron. This can be seen in context as field radios were not available then, seperate missions in a battle must be officer led so there is less over head on command communications. For the provisional commander, it is the break you needed as it can get you promoted to a higher command or formation as you have exhibited performance under fire. C. Engagement distance of 300m and the hide position of PVt Mariano The san mateo line to san mateo poblacion is a flat flood plain. From the bluff across the river, it is clearly seen that commanding fire can be made to prevent retreat(the arty guys will not have a problem elevating their pieces). But upon deployment of infantry along the other bank of the river, lawton must have realized that the defenders have the upper hand. Deploying marksmen on tree tops (artificial high ground) gives Gen Geronimo's the chance to effectively harass any organized effort to initiate the infantry crossing. And this is where Pvt Mariano was effective. Pvt Mariano was able to established a kill zone incidentally where Gen Lawton intends to establish a lane for the crossing (may be a piece of open ground leading to the shallow parts of the river) D. Death of Pvt Mariano His firing position must have been detected and pvt mariano made the mistake of not relocating after several engagements. 1. He was in a concealed position not a covered position he can be easily engaged by artillery once is general area was established. 2.The battle space is orientated east to west, before noon his concealment was effective but after noon the sun angle will eventually give him away to accurate counter sniper fire. 3. Who ever was commanding the tiradores del muerte did not have the tactical sense not to be loyal to effective positions as he is commanding a force multiplier, he held the position too long. 4. Gen Geronimo, could have established a counter attack or a raid when the deployment of Gen Lawton went to disarray. But this is debatable as he may not have officers that can lead the counterattack or raid further military doctrine of the time does not espouse maneuver warfare. But one thing is sure, the victory may have been better if he did. He could have enveloped the flanks of lawton then harassed the trapped infantry or raid the lower artillery positions then quickly withdraw back to the line. jxm, hi! glad to hear your point of view on this issues, pero bago ko sagutin ang mga ibinangon mong mga tanong let me give you some clarification. 1. THE NAME OF THE BATTLE In reality theres no such a name or name of place("Paye")in san mateo. I interview a lot of people(Taal or native of the town)in san mateo and they told me that there's no such a place called "Paye" in their native town. Some historians call it as "Battle of Payatas" since the place where the General(Lawton)died is part of a place known as Payatas(An ancient tagalog word for "Wilderness" or "Wilderness on the otherside of the river"---But some researcher claimed that the name "Payatas" derived from the red san mateo clay called "Paya" that can only be found on the top of the now batasan hills, so thus the name derived from "Paya-Taas" or "Payatas"---) But obviously the established name of the place was Paya-taas and not Paye-taas he he he still theres no place name "Paye" in the area. NHI(National Historical Institute)designated the official name of the battle as "Labanan sa San Mateo" or in English as "Battle of San Mateo" The "Battle of Paye" occurs in Boac Marinduque in a small barrio called "Paye" So I believe that the rightful name of the battle is "Battle of San Mateo". 2. CANNONS AND ORDINANCE No cannons or any ordinance reported during the battle. Official reports of the americans says that he(Gen. Lawton)attack san mateo with only one regiment of US Army composed of 2 battalions each of infantry and 2 squadron of cavalry(somehow base on their official report) 3. THE BLUFF OR HIGH GROUND I'm hoping to find evidence on my claim that the place was then became a new fronline between the two opposing force. I strongly believe that after the second battle of manila Gen. Geronimo's men retreated to marikina, san mateo poblasyon and san mateo montalban line and that the opposing General(Gen. Hale?)occupy this new frontline fronting san mateo(the batasan,payatas hills and Novaliches line)with his men to check Gen. Geronimo's movement in the area. As what Gen. Arthur MacArthur did to Gen. Antonio Luna in the succeeding battle of La Loma, Caloocan, Bagbag, Calumpit and Santo Thomas. When Gen. Luna move his headquarters in Polo Bulacan(Now Valenzuela)Gen. MacArthur move also his men to caloocan fronting Polo Bulacan. When Gen. Luna move again to Bagbag, Gen. MacArthur move also his men to a place fronting Bagbag. So ganito rin ang inaasahan ko sa San Mateo. Nakatitiyak ako na may mga amerikanong naka-garrison sa lugar, actually sa buong hanay ng Batasan-Payatas hills, Novaliches line bago pa dumating si General Lawton para atakihin ang san mateo. 4. ENTRENCHMENT My analysis on Gen. Geronimo's entrenchment was base on the account of some american eyewitness who attack san mateo and also base on the available dacuments on our hands.
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jxm
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Post by jxm on Dec 14, 2009 10:56:55 GMT -5
Hi sumaquel,
1. re light and heavy ordnance I read the after battle report presented earlier and I initially came to the same conclusion that no crew served ordnance can be seen or mentioned but the report is entirely poetic and not objective leaving out clues on the proper order of battle and the table of organization and equipment as they were deployed (thus creating the missing squadron paradox). I would still like to believe that at least "pack animal carried crew served ordnance" was utilized in the battle for the ff reasons
a. there is no way for an advancing force composed mostly of infantry to cohesively assault a double fortified position (the river and the breastworks) without crew served weapons, I can not imagine lawton calling a general attack composed mainly of infantry to create a breakthrough or breakout in the fortified lines. He will need three sets of reserves to cover that space. one general attack to make a breakthrough, next general attack to exploit the break through and breakout to the rear lastly another general attack to takeover and stabilized the line from the breakout.
b. There was no succesful flank maneuver undertaken as the overflowing creek south of the main defense line also served as a flank defense line. In short it was a direct approach.
c. Either ways, there was less casualty on the engagement, I can only conclude that heavy weapons were used to break the breastworks (which have been effective on other battles prior to San Mateo)
d. Lastly, lawton is a major general and battalions and cavalry troop was attached to him, meaning his main organic formation is similar to an army brigade (or at least if not a division), period doctrine dictates that organic to brigade is at least a an artillery section, a cavalry squadron and sometimes a machine gun section. This formation goes with HQ of lawton, infantry battalions and add'l cavalry troop are only attached to him as the need arise. I would not be surprised if the dismounted cavalry is the organic cavalry of his unit serving as brigade organic infantry role. If it was an infantry only affair without heavy ordnance, then the formation should have been mentioned as a provisional infantry regiment which is usually commanded by a full colonel or a one star general.
As a rule back then, the general is not a general until he can command artillery to effect systematic destruction on the enemy. If you notice in past engagements in the filam war, artillery was usually mentioned when a general is involved in the operation.
But again there is probability that no heavy ordnance was used but it is unlikely to my opinion.
2. I hope that you find the evidence of such bec the analysis I concluded was not static battle but a general breakout on san mateo from the south. Defense effectively collapse when US forces was able to cross the creek south of the poblacion. From the delta of the creek, in the hand notes, it seems that the launching point of transporting lawtons body was south of the line on the marikina direction. Meaning taking his body to marikina was more secure than getting it back to the trail the main force used to ingress. I can only conclude that US forces was able to reach marikina or suburbs as lawton approached san mateo, possibly entrapping geronimo into a pincer trap.
If I was in geronimo's shoes, I would not retreat to marikina where cavalry friendly roads abound with no logical geographic obstacles to slow down an attempted envelopment (which was repeatedly used in caloocan, bagbag etc). I would learn my lesson and engage the enemy only when equal parity in forces and capability is possible, thus retreating to the safety of the sierra madre foothills.
3. Entrenchments I agree with the entrenchment positions, if ricefields were available it could have been used and irrigation canals used as commo trenches, on non paddy areas, fil forces usually use breastworks with bamboo reinforcements and clay berms. Though I am mystified if entrenchments were used in the southern flank facing marikina, because the main breakout originated from that direction, it seems that this sector was lightly defended an no organized force was able to block this sector.
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jxm
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Post by jxm on Dec 14, 2009 11:01:42 GMT -5
3. Entrenchments I agree with the entrenchment positions, if ricefields were available it could have been used and irrigation canals used as commo trenches, on non paddy areas, fil forces usually use breastworks with bamboo reinforcements and clay berms. Though I am mystified if entrenchments were used in the southern flank facing marikina, because EVENTUALLY the main breakout originated from that direction, it seems that this sector was lightly defended an no organized force was able to block this sector.
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jxm
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Post by jxm on Dec 14, 2009 11:03:02 GMT -5
Lastly, I only made the conclusions after sifting through the material posted in this thread. Again this is all commentary from my part.
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