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Post by Macky Hosalla on Jun 3, 2008 9:32:14 GMT -5
Was it "battle of Paye" or "Battle of San Mateo"? Is there anyone here know whats the truth? Can you share your comment and opinion about this matter?
Wikipedia uses the Title "Battle of Paye" despite the fact that the NHI the sole authority in our History designated the name of the battle as "Labanan sa San Mateo" o "Battle of San Mateo" sa English.
So was it Battle of San Mateo or Battle of Paye?
Whay say you?
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Post by arnaldodumindin on Jun 30, 2008 19:08:15 GMT -5
It's Battle of San Mateo. Even the Americans called it as such in their official after-action report. All biographies on Lawton also say so. After Lawton died, his men crossed the San Mateo River---only about 300 yards from where Lawton fell--- and drove the Filipinos out of San Mateo town proper.
The Battle of Paye actually took place on July 31, 1900 in Barangay Balimbing, Boac, Marinduque (Paye is a sitio of Bgy. Balimbing). The Filipinos also defeated the Americans in this battle. A "Battle of Payee" marker was put up in Bgy. Balimbing years ago. The people there commemorate this Filipino victory yearly. The "Battle of Paye" marker is listed as one of the tourist attractions of Boac, Marinduque.
The contributor of that article in Wikipedia was probably confused. The reason is, General Licerio Geronimo, in addition to Morong Province, was also in-charge of the Marinduque Command.
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Post by Macky Hosalla on Jul 12, 2008 10:53:07 GMT -5
Sir Butch! Thank you very much for your wonderful comment.
So its done! its fallacy, can you imagine thousand of filipino student and researcher reading fallacies! My Goodness!
How about this! "The Tiradores De la Muerte" The famous sharpshooters(Tiradores)that killed Gen. Lawton, are they real? or just only a myth?
Is there anyone here knows the truth?
Tell us!
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Post by Macky Hosalla on Jul 30, 2008 7:50:57 GMT -5
Veevee,
Can I post picture here?
Richard, Kevin,
Is it OK if I post some of our findings and evidence here about the battle of san mateo?
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 5, 2008 7:10:58 GMT -5
Yes feel free! Please do so we can all learn.
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Post by Macky Hosalla on Aug 9, 2008 7:03:04 GMT -5
Thanks Veevee, The problem is, I'm having a hard time posting picture on your site can you help me? One more thing, can I use Filipino at least on this particular topic? I can explain myself much better if I use my native language. Not all who visit your site are Filipino-Americans anyway.
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 10, 2008 20:12:42 GMT -5
You can email me the pictures and I'll post them for you. You can post in Tagalog if you want. I'll try to translate if it's not too long and if I find the time.
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Post by Macky Hosalla on Aug 11, 2008 8:28:09 GMT -5
Thank You very much sir! Can I have your email address?
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 11, 2008 18:57:34 GMT -5
Hi Macky, don't you have a userid in the forum? Please login and I'll send you a PM with it. I don't want spambots to pick up the email and start sending me advertisements. Thanks.
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macky
History Student
Posts: 63
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Post by macky on Aug 13, 2008 8:27:15 GMT -5
I don't understand what you mean actually he he he. Is it possible to contact me on this address? sumaquel@yahoo.comthen after that I will send you some of my picture of the battlefield.
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 13, 2008 12:44:16 GMT -5
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macky
History Student
Posts: 63
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Post by macky on Aug 14, 2008 7:24:57 GMT -5
Above(Left)NHI Battle Marker of Battle of San Mateo. Middle(Left)NHI Battle marker of Battle of Pulang Lupa.(Battle of Paye) Below(Left)Citation of the Battle of Pulang lupa and Battle of Paye in Boac Marinduque.
Map: Maps of the battlefieds of "Battle of San Mateo" in San Mateo Rizal(With Location of Gen. Lawtons Monument.
Nakakatawa kasi, dalawang pangyayari na naganap sa dalawang magkaibang lugar(San Mateo Rizal and Paye Boac Marinduque)na may dalawang magkaibang battle marker, pero ipinaliliwanag na iisang kaganapan lamang.
For your information, Gen. Lawton died in the battlefield of San Mateo in Rizal and not in the battlefield of Paye in Boac Marinduque.
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 16, 2008 6:37:49 GMT -5
Another research photo from Macky. Thanks Macky. click for bigger
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Post by RayAdillO on Aug 16, 2008 9:25:12 GMT -5
A news update: I'm happy to report that as of June 2008, General Geronimo is still in his final resting place inside the mausoleum of the veterans of the Philippine revolution at north cemetery in Manila, along with a few more comarades whose remains have thus far been left untouched by grave robbers. The exteriror still holds some of it's original magnificence, despite the fact it it has generally been negelected. I do hope someday they transfer the whole thing "brick by brick" at a much better site with no other structure obstructing the view within at least half a mile. although I seriously doubt if this can be anytime within the present generation, with the way things are going. I like this neo-classic ornamental relief. The "fasces" carried by ancient Roman lictors was indentified more as an international symbol of "republicanism" when this mausoleum was erected, prior to the rise of mussolini's "fascists" in Italy.
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Post by dimasalang on Aug 16, 2008 14:33:25 GMT -5
Another research photo from Macky. Thanks Macky. click for bigger The deal with this photo is historians believe this to be the last known photos of Lawton on his trek to San Mateo. Macky, Richard, and I have looked at this photo for quite sometime studying it. This can not be a photo of Lawton heading to San Mateo because it is during the day time. Both Lawton and Otis reports show departure time from Manila was near dusk(~6-7pm) and trek lasted through out the NIGHT(Lawtons soldiers are well known by Aguinaldos forces to travel at night) and the Battle of San Mateo commenced at the crack of dawn. Also their was torrent rain on the trek. Obviously this photo does not show either night or rain.
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Post by RayAdillO on Aug 16, 2008 20:45:35 GMT -5
Very good photo analysis dimasalang. I like the picture of the officer wearing a havelock round the brim of his campaign hat, next to Lawton. He wouldn't wear someting like that if the sun wasn't broiling over their heads.
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Post by dimasalang on Aug 17, 2008 13:29:22 GMT -5
Very good photo analysis dimasalang. I like the picture of the officer wearing a havelock round the brim of his campaign hat, next to Lawton. He wouldn't wear someting like that if the sun wasn't broiling over their heads. Yes, it looks like they are burning up in those outfits. haha Hard to see in that picture but typically on hot days Lawton would unbutton his coat except for the very top buttons. Otis also reported Lawton left his office heading for San Mateo in his yellow slicker rain jacket...obviously he is not wearing any slicker in that picture. Thanks for posting those pictures of the Mousoleo de los Veteranos de la Revolucion! I always wanted to see what the inside and the floor looked like. I actually thought they moved Gen Geronimos body back to his home town. I also hear Gen Pio del Pilar is still one of the Generals interred there. I have been to Manilas North Cemetery in 2005(uncle lives a couple blocks away), but I regret not visiting the mausoleum(didnt know it existed in 2005). This cemetery is super huge!...with many heroes and famous historical figures buried here. Hundreds of tombs and structures that are just awe striking and impressive. I HIGHLY recommend to anyone in to history to visit this cemetery...it is not listed as a tourist spot, but IMO it is one of Manilas greatest tourist spots that nobody knows about. Off topic: Manuel Quezons grandson is a journalist and he wrote this article on Manilas North Cemetery. www.quezon.ph/691/paranormal-and-historical/Very interesting read. Below is an except of the section where he and the spirit questors visit the Mousoleo de los Veteranos de la Revolucion. [/quote] Few pics I took at North Cemetery in 2005. www.fototime.com/inv/73D4CF0F4A48D9C
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 18, 2008 13:24:06 GMT -5
Photo sent in by Macky. I love this "battlefield detective" then and now stuff. click for bigger
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mish
History Buff
Kalayaan
Posts: 135
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Post by mish on Aug 19, 2008 13:14:57 GMT -5
I like this neo-classic ornamental relief. The "fasces" carried by ancient Roman lictors was indentified more as an international symbol of "republicanism" when this mausoleum was erected, prior to the rise of mussolini's "fascists" in Italy. Mussolini and Hitler were obsessed with ancient Rome, fusing 1930s fascism with ancient republicanism. In a very perverse sense, the fasces came to symbolize fascist Italy, in much the same way that the Roman legions' eagle flew at the head of Nazi Germany's hordes. There's a very interesting Discov feature on this particular fascist obsession with Republican/Imperial Rome; got to watch it a few years back. I'll look it up. I'll concede Ceasar, Octavian/Augustus, the so-called Good Emperors, and their successors down the line weren't all exactly paragons of idealized Roman republicanism - far from it - but neither were they in any manner close to their supposed 20th-century "heirs."
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Post by Macky Hosalla on Aug 20, 2008 2:41:04 GMT -5
BALIKBAYAN OF THE UNSUNG HERO With your Indulgence G. Rayadillo, the tomb of Gen. Licerio Geronimo in Mausuleo delos Veteranos was now empty. The remains of the late general was transfered in his native town of Montalban on February 20, 1993.
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