Revolutionary Army Dagger

[hussar]

Hello !

This is my first time posting here.

I was happy to find your website as I am interested in the history of the Philippines and especially Military History.

I was hoping to get some feedback on a dagger I own.

I believe it to be a General's Dagger from the Revolutionary Army.
It is Monogrammed with the initials "HT".
It also has the date "13 Agosto 1898" engraved on the scabbard.
(The fall of Manila?).

Can someone on the Forum provide feedback as to who the original owner might have been ?

Thanks ! Hussar

[99luftbalut]

can you post some pictures please?

[hussar]

Hi 99luftbalut,

I have not figured out how to post photos.

Sorry ! Hussar

[99luftbalut]

maybe you got a link? if not you can post it on photobucket, then you can post it here. or you can send me the pics, and i can post it for you.

[hussar]

I would be happy to send you photos and for you to post them.

Please tell me where to send them.

[99luftbalut]

please send it to [e-mail]

[hussar]

I have just sent them to you. Thanks for offering to post them.

[99luftbalut]

here are the pictures: hopefully the experts here can chime in:

[battara]

Hi I'm new to this site.

I love your dagger and it looks like either a Katipunan officer's or an early PI republic dagger that belonged to a high ranking officer. The mounts appear to be silver as well as the scabbard and the triangle-3 stars-Malay sun face give this away. Also the Luzon bolo in the circle.

I would guess that the writing down one side of the scabbard may be the name of a general or other high ranking officer. What does the name say - can't see it well from the picture.

Congratulations on this wonderful puppy! ;D

[kampilan]

a question to you, sir:

i'm cofused sir, you're claiming that since it has the triangle/3 stars/malay sun then it's a katipunan oficer dagger? why would they have something that would identify them as such? wasn't katipunan a secret society? if you look at pio del pilar's dagger (an ex-katipunero) you will notice it's plain:

pinoyhistory.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=artifacts&action=display&thread=1198183171

isn't the 3 star/triangle/malay sun the seal of the 1st Philippine Republic?

[battara]

Kampilan,

A good point. I was once under the assumption that the later Katipunan and the first republic were the same. But there is a thread that 99luftballoons and I now may see they are not exactly the same. If this is true then it is a 1st republic piece more accurately. However, on things like 1st republic stamps, seals, etc. there are the malay sun, 3 stars, and 3 "K"s that represent the Katipunan. This is why I group the 2 together, but perhaps I should change my nomenclature?

[sanduko]

Not everyhting that looks like it might be Katipunan, is Katipunan.
What does Katipunan look like anyway?
Does it have a particular shape/style? No.
Do they always have to have the symbols? No.
Do they always have to be fancy? No.
Double edged? No.

Not all double edged daggers from that era are Katipunan.
There's a so called Katipunan dagger on ebay that is grossly mislabeled. Its not even from Luzon.

People need to be careful of what they profess as Katipunan. Next thing is you'll see the price of normal weapons triple because someone was told its Katipunan.

[battara]

Actually most of the time I see Filipino pieces being sold as "Confederate" and the price thus raised accordingly.

[kampilan]

However, on things like 1st republic stamps, seals, etc. there are the malay sun, 3 stars, and 3 "K"s that represent the Katipunan. This is why I group the 2 together, but perhaps I should change my nomenclature?

sir,

From the sound of it, it seems you are confusing the two. You are in the right forum to learn more about our country's history (granted if you're a Filipino, if not, I didn't mean to imply otherwise). our history is already mired with false information; we don't need to screw it up even more. Btw, do you have pictures of this 1st republic seals, stamps, etc with the 3 "K"? it would be a nice addition to our virtual museum.

[sanduko]

battara said:

Actually most of the time I see Filipino pieces being sold as "Confederate" and the price thus raised accordingly.

Battara,
Here's an example of a possible Confederate dagger, or maybe a French dagger. It could be Katipunan, or even Aguinaldo era.
It could be 1850, or 1950.
If it is Filipino, what Province is it from?
What do you think?
I ask, because I'm wanting an honest answer from a fellow collector.

[battara]

Sanduko,

This one is a little tricky. The horn on the hilt (if it is horn) is not the typical carabao horn you see on Filipino pieces. Then the silver cap and ferrule are not in traditional northern Luzon Filipino forms either. Though it is in European style, it does not seem to me to be in the typical Spanish Colonial influenced manner.

Next the scabbard. It fits Luzon form, but the style of the floral motif is not in the typical style that I have seen on these. I guess that I would lean a little on the "no" side of not being Filipino, with one caveat: it could be a very unique variation.

Regarding the 1st Republic emblems, I may just do that and get photos of these stamps I have. I will also post a 1st Republic Ilocano dagger, a sword attributed to General Lukban, and a 1st republic flag soon on other posts for comment.

More for me to learn since I have been somewhat informed by early 20th century American information - leaving a lot to be desired for the most part.

[battara]

BTW - no offense taken Kampilan. I am Filipino, Scots-Irish, and Cherokee Indian decent. My father is from Laguna province. ;D

[kampilan]

Not everyhting that looks like it might be Katipunan, is Katipunan.
What does Katipunan look like anyway?
Does it have a particular shape/style? No.
Do they always have to have the symbols? No.
Do they always have to be fancy? No.
Double edged? No.

Not all double edged daggers from that era are Katipunan.
There's a so called Katipunan dagger on ebay that is grossly mislabeled. Its not even from Luzon.

People need to be careful of what they profess as Katipunan. Next thing is you'll see the price of normal weapons triple because someone was told its Katipunan

sanduko makes an excellent point! It seems to be that anytime a dagger with horn handle wrapped in wire and t guard is automatically designated as "Katipunan" dagger. I notice this a lot on ebay and such. As a matter of fact, there's one right now. It seems to be that there's someone that's spreading misinformation out there. A good analogy would be the folding Buck Knife that is so common today. It gets to a point where the term "Buck Knife" is generically referred to those folding knives, but the thing is, not all folding knives are made by Buck. it could be Bokken, or Case, or Spyderco. My point is, at the turn of the 20th century, what is erroneously referred to as Katipunan dagger is a very, very common design to these types of blade, esp. in Europe. I would say that true Katipunan weapons are indeed rare, simply because there was no standard issue at that time. I believe that the only way to tell an authentic Katipunan dagger is if it has a strong provenance behind it and a good example would be General del Pilar's one in the Pasig museum.
From the tone of your post, sanduko, it seems like you know the provenance of your dagger. I would be very much interested to know what it is, although i have a feeling that it is a Visayan Daga, but not necessarily own by a common tao, but by one of the illustrados, or even the Spanish elites.

[sanduko]

Kampilan,
You bring up a lot of good points. Making our history correct is hard when there's a lot of mis-information out on the net.

You have very good eyes...
You may be correct on the daga.

[beancent]

This dagger also belonged to Gen. Pio del Pilar. You can see that it also has a "wire" handle but the dagger itself is already weathered.