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Post by dimasalang on Jul 9, 2007 18:14:41 GMT -5
Hey guys,
Can someone please post a picture of the original flag sewn by Marcela de Agoncillo and unfurled on June 12 1898. TIA! ;D
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Post by VeeVee on Jul 11, 2007 6:10:40 GMT -5
I'll ask around for you.
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Post by dimasalang on Jul 11, 2007 17:26:29 GMT -5
This is claimed(by Aguinaldos family) to be the “original” flag sewn by Marcella de Agoncillo. It is on display at the Aguinaldo Museum in Baguio. Anybody in or near Baguio that can check this flag out? RP's Original FlagAguinaldo’s RP flag may be gone in 30 to 50 years06/13/07 Posted under Independence Day By Vincent Cabreza Inquirer BAGUIO CITY, Philippines — The flag believed by heirs of Emilio Aguinaldo to be that unfurled by the general in Kawit, Cavite, in 1898 still received no respect at Tuesday’s rites marking the 109th Independence Day. Marching bands accompanying the city government’s Freedom Day parade loudly made their way down Session Road, but only a handful of people paid quiet homage to the tattered relic encased in glass at the Aguinaldo Museum on Happy Glen Loop here. Emilio Aguinaldo Suntay III, the general’s great grandson, said he was glad that some people still managed to show up. The bad news, he said, was that the flag had only “our lifetime” — or 30-50 more years — to last. Suntay said technicians and preservation specialists of various facilities, including the Washington-based Smithsonian Institution, earlier warned the family that there was no technology available to restore and preserve the flag at its present state. He said the decay of the silk fabric had progressed beyond any known method of chemically or physically preserving it. “Nothing lasts, anyway. And that goes double for fabric,” Suntay said. Former Baguio representative Honorato Aquino, lawyer of the Aguinaldo heirs, said the family might seek a second opinion from Japanese experts. Meanwhile, Suntay said, the family would maintain the procedures that scientists had required for preserving the flag, “for as long as it remains intact.” The family was prepared for the flag’s inevitable decay, Suntay said. He said this was why he and other family members had commissioned University of the Philippines experts to replicate the flag down to the silk fabric. The replica was displayed here during the centennial of Philippine Independence in 1998. The original flag was later framed and secured from the ceiling of the Baguio museum. The National Historical Institute has yet to authenticate the original flag despite years of probing. But it was responsible for wrapping the fragile relic in a metallic net to keep the fabric from shredding under its own weight. The city government offered in 2006 to help raise capital to preserve the flag, but Suntay said the Aguinaldo heirs decided to raise the funds themselves. He said they were raised to follow a principle espoused by US President John F. Kennedy. “It doesn’t matter what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country — and what we are doing is protecting this symbol,” he said. Suntay said his grandmother, Cristina Aguinaldo Suntay, started this crusade when she inherited the flag, which the family discovered under the general’s deathbed. The original flag is distinctive because its sun bears a golden face paler than that in the contemporary flag that Baguio residents waved during Tuesday’s Freedom Day parade. The section symbolizing peacetime is light blue, in contrast to the dark blue hue in the contemporary flag. The phrase “Fuerzas Expedicionarias del Norte de Luzon” runs across one side of the flag, and the words “Libertad” and “Justicia” on the other side.
Lack of funds has forced the family to share the original flag’s glass casing with an authentic flag used by General Gregorio del Pilar.Suntay said the family also managed to preserve a bloodstained flag used by Aguinaldo during the Philippine-Spanish War. Most of Tuesday’s visitors to the museum belonged to the anthropology class of Danish teacher Lars Kjaerholm, who has been sending students to the Philippines for social immersion activities. Baguio’s official representatives to the program were officials of the village of Salud Mitra led by village chief Nida Galace. Suntay said he did not mind the seeming snub of the family’s precious relic. His niece, Anna Suntay, attributed the low turnout of visitors to Malacañang’s earlier announcement that June 12 was a regular working day.
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Post by paopadd on Jul 11, 2007 17:35:52 GMT -5
Dear Dimasalang, i have another drawing of the "original " (? ) flag of Marcela Agoncillo, i will post it on this and the other forum ( filipinoforum.net ) .... . Stay well Paopadd (Paolo )
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Post by dimasalang on Jul 11, 2007 18:08:50 GMT -5
Thanks Paolo! Hope to see your drawings real soon.
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Post by VeeVee on Jul 11, 2007 22:30:53 GMT -5
According to Perry, a well researched historian in Manila, this flag may not be the original Philippine flag because it was found out to be of cotton cloth, not silk.
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Post by dimasalang on Jul 12, 2007 17:26:56 GMT -5
According to Perry, a well researched historian in Manila, this flag may not be the original Philippine flag because it was found out to be of cotton cloth, not silk. Interesting. I wonder if this is the same flag. I remember grabbing this from a webpage saying this was a "replica" of the original.
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Post by VeeVee on Jun 16, 2008 15:32:49 GMT -5
Here's one sent in by Paopadd (Paolo). It was purchased by a friend of a friend of his. Paopadd is a Philippine flag collector/researcher.
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Post by Claire on Jun 20, 2008 4:21:05 GMT -5
Hey guys, The flag in General Emilio Aguinaldo Museum, Baguio City is the original . There is no doubt that it is the original. It is very fragile and encased in a net. It is made of silk as discovered by scholars from UP and from the Smithsonian Institute. The replica of the flag is displayed in the museum, unfortunately the original is displayed once a year on June 12. I had to travel all the way from Manila just to see it! I heard that the Aguinaldo-Suntay also posses the Palanan flag! The ones that the Americans captured and returned to Aguinaldo around 1950s? The flag used to be on display in his house in Kawit, but I heard that due to the hot hot humid weather in that area it was moved to Baguio to preserve it. It's definitely the original because it was always by Aguinaldo's side, even under his deathbed which the Aguinaldo-Suntay family discovered. His youngest daughter Cristina (founder of the museum in Baguio) inherited it. He donated his house in Kawit to the government, but he could never part with the first flag! I wouldn't either, it just meant so much to him. There is much debate on which is the original, during the time Aguinaldo was alive, Filipinos acknowledged it as the first flag. I mean who better to say who the first flag is that the guy who designed it right?After his death, they just got so confused and other people started claiming they have the first flag. Even Malacanang palace have their own version, It's sad though cause Filipinos are so apathetic towards their own history. The government won't even help preserving because if they do, then that's like saying it is the first flag. The good previous mayor of Baguio City Yaranon offered to raise funds for it, but I think his term was nearly over (so the project didn't push through) and the Aguinaldo-Suntay family does not have faith on the stability of the government...haha they might even try to steal it!
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Post by indiosbravos on Jun 23, 2008 17:32:27 GMT -5
Things like this will make you say thanks instead of condemning the library or museums of other country that "housed" any memento or memorabilia pertaining to our country.
I will not be there on the picket line shouting "Bring back what is ours".....
How ever you hate the Lopez family and their multi media / business monopoly, you have to thank them for preserving some of our valuable arts, books and others using their own money.
Heard about the rotting files about Phil/Spanish War in the National Archives? Stolen files? Neglected Museums?
It makes me sad and happy seeing these things well preserved and looked after in other countries museums.
Looted churches and cementery?
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Post by paopadd on Jun 24, 2008 14:12:07 GMT -5
Hi friends, i 'm partially agree with Claire, the flag of Aguinaldo is an original flag but not the first flag; of course the flag located in Baguio is original and made in silk and its replica in cotton but one important evidence is that Aguinaldo, Agoncillo etc. never mentioned the central "seal" with the inscription :"Fuerzas Expedicionarias del Norte de Luzon”who runs across one side of the flag, and the words “Libertad” and “Justicia” on the other side. A so very important detail can't be forgotten .......
Mabuhay
paopadd (Paolo )
P.S. Claire , do you have images of all the filipino and spanish flags in Aguinaldo Museum of Baguio ? I'm interested on them..
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Post by paopadd on Jun 24, 2008 14:18:37 GMT -5
About the flag collections of the Aguinaldo Museum of Baguio, a friend of mine told me they also have got an original flag of General Gregorio del Pilar,"the boy General", there is someone who know more on this topic ?
Stay well
paopadd
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Post by paopadd on Jul 14, 2008 16:27:46 GMT -5
I'm not able to read the replies of Yuman11 !!!!! Can someone do it ?
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Post by VeeVee on Jul 19, 2008 7:18:52 GMT -5
I deleted it. It's a spambot advertising posting.
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Post by paopadd on Jul 19, 2008 15:30:35 GMT -5
Thanks veeVee;Dear friends at the Idaho State Capitol Commission there is a Filipino flag of the " Battalion Manila" who fought against the americans , recently restored. I sent them many e-mails but they never replied. Do you know someone who can go there to try to obtain pics. And infos on this flag ? Mabuhay! Paolo
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 1, 2008 7:14:02 GMT -5
Posting this for Art Garcia: A captured Filipino streamer/flag (cavalry?). Captured by the 1st Washington Volunteers in 1899
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Post by paopadd on Aug 5, 2008 14:24:59 GMT -5
Hi, more than a streamer/flag we can say it is a gonfalon ; i knew it but not the source of the image, the shape of it remind us to the old flags , standards and gonfalons of the early Katipunan, so it is not a gonfalon or standard of cavalry because they had a different shape... if you like i will show you a (supposed ) cavalry flag of General Torres.
Mabuhay !
Paolo
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r2ro
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by r2ro on Aug 5, 2008 15:04:35 GMT -5
I thought that's a Filipino Cavalry flag because of its' swallow tails. When you mentioned the word confalon, is it the same banner used by Joan of Arc? Please post the picture of the Cavalry flag of General Torres. I just would to see one how it look like. Also I'm from Batangas, Does General Malvar have thier own Battle Flag? Can you post the picture if they do have one? Thanks.
Art Garcia 45th Inf (PS) Macabebe Scout
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Post by paopadd on Aug 6, 2008 13:40:16 GMT -5
Hi friend, i'm happy to know you are from Batangas;me i'm italian but my wife is from Santo Tomas, the place of Gen. Malvar; unfortunatly Gen. Malvar didn't have his personal flag, i suppose he adopted the national flag of that period.... . About the word "gonfalon" we must know that not all the swallow tails flags are standards or guidons, this word is a common word also in the present dictionary of terms adopted by all the vexillologist. i will publish the image of the guidon of Gen. Torres very soon.
Feel free to write me also a private e-mail if you want.
Mabuhay !
Paolo
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r2ro
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by r2ro on Aug 6, 2008 14:49:41 GMT -5
Hello Paolo,
Nice to hear from you that you are married to a Batanguena. I have been in Brendizi, Italy as a young Buck Private Marine back in the 70's almost caught a trench foot. Cold and wet out there with our jungle fatigues and Nam boots issues. My grandfather was part of the American Offensive Brigade (Macabebe Scouts) during thier march to Southern Tagalogs and was assigned to Camp McGrath, Batangas at the end of the Philippine American War. I guess you are right that Malvar don't have a battle flag because I haven't seen any pictures of him with a flag on. I have collected one of the book about our province " Battle for Batangas " just out of curiousity of what happened to our province during that period. You can send me your e-mail at r2ro43@hotmail.com.
Art Garcia Macabebe Scout
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