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Post by dimasalang on Jun 8, 2007 17:23:56 GMT -5
Hello all. My first post here. Im just another Filipino history buff like everyone on this forum. ;D My question is, what revolvers were used by the Katipunan(generals,officers,Bonifacio) during the Revolution and the Philippines American War? Make? Model? Caliber? Im sure they got them from the Spanish, but it seems very difficult to find any specifics on Spanish Military pistols. TIA. ;D
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Post by Battlemaster on Jun 8, 2007 20:18:57 GMT -5
Hi Dimasalang,
Nice name Dimasalang, taken for the code name of Rizal I believe.
The pistols of the Katipuneros were eclectic, most of the initial ones however came from Europe.
Inferring from the year 1896 I'd say the French 1880 cal 32 6 shot revolver and the French Lefaucheux Pistol are good candidates. I saw a very blurred photo once of a pistol used by a Katipunero officer and it looks like a Lefaucheux but the bad photo quality would not allow me to really verify with certainty.
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 12, 2007 0:08:40 GMT -5
Haha yah, I got this name from Rizal. Interesting, Ill look more in to that particular pistol and see what turns up. Thanks for the input. Anybody else have any suggestions?...theres gotta be more.
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Post by VeeVee on Jun 12, 2007 8:16:30 GMT -5
I'm trying to find out more info for you. I posted a question in another board with well-researched Span-Am reenactors... stay tuned.
However a Google search turned up this. If we're to infer that the Filipino officers used Spanish revolvers, this could be one:
The only Spanish pistol I can find reference to for that War is a Spanish copy of the Smith and Wesson .44 caliber double action break top revolver made by Orbea y Compania of Eibar, Spain, designated the M1884.
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Post by VeeVee on Jun 12, 2007 11:53:49 GMT -5
Some more information re: Spanish revolvers
From CrazyDima of the WW2 Reenactors forum:
Off the top of my head I remember that the 1890's Spanish military had a basic set of criteria for revolvers and as long as it met the basic criteria it did not matter as to make or model or country.
Thus you see a lot of different revolver styles from various countries in use. Smith and Wesson revolvers were very popular.
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Post by dimasalang on Jun 12, 2007 14:13:18 GMT -5
Thanks VeeVee. I just did a few searching of my own. Found this on a gun collectors board.
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Post by VeeVee on Jun 12, 2007 20:19:25 GMT -5
From Faabala, who's also a member of this board: Gleaned from some gunboards.....
Spanish Army Handguns (1860-1890) II
In 1874, it is recommended to the Officers the use of the revolver Smith and Wesson number 3, in caliber 11 mm, (Russian version).
In 1884, it is recommended to the Officers the use of the revolver Smith and Wesson system ONÁ, in caliber 11 mm. It is known like model 7, of “Orbea Hermanos”. It was similar to the number 3, but of double action. The system ONÁ was a Spanish design to update the S&W number 3.
In 1887, it is recommended to the Officers the use of the revolver Melvin Hubert, in caliber 11 mm. It was made by Anitúa y Charola, in Eibar, (famous industrial city of the north of Spain).
In 1905, the Spanish Army adopted the pistol Bergmann, mod. 1903, in caliber 9 mm.
Merwin Hulbert Revolvers.... www.ocyoung.com/Merwin2.htm
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Post by VeeVee on Jun 12, 2007 20:22:19 GMT -5
From CrazyDima:
My compiled notes show that the three most common types of pistols in use by Spanish regulars at the time of the war were Spanish copies of the following:
No. 3 Smith & Wesson Russian
1881 Smith & Wesson .44 double action
.45 revolver based on the Kerr patent
The barrel markings normally will read: "Garrate Anitina Y C Eibar" or "Obea Hermanos Y C E con Privelegio En Espano"
Interestingly some officers were still using the Lefaucheux revolvers even though they were terribly outdated by that time.
When it comes to the Guerrilla units of the Ejercito Ultramar the weaponry became much more varied.
I will keep digging.
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Post by RayAdillO on Jun 14, 2007 8:34:30 GMT -5
Speaking of pistols which the katipunan used, I suppose it would only be natural that they used whatever they can capture or steal from the Spanish.
But for the Philippine Republican Army, many of whose wealthy illustrado officers lived and studied in Europe, or otherwise spent their post-katipunan exile in Hong Kong; it wouldn't be too far fetched if one or two bought for themselves an early mark Webley or maybe even a C96 "broom handle" Mauser?
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Post by dimasalang on Jul 13, 2007 12:34:02 GMT -5
RayadillO, Im sure many pistols were bought from HK and Europe. I would kind of think those would be "one off" pieces. Since this is war they are going in to and many of these officers would be right in the thick of things, I would think some would opt for the pistol that is more widely available to them...being these "one off" pistols would have specific cartridges and not be compatible with any other. Resulting in having inadequate ammo supply to themselves. Found this on a gun collector/sellers website. DESCRIPTION: Large frame Spanish military Lefaucheux type pinfire revolver. This model was manufactured exclusively for the Spanish Army. Made by the State Factory in Oviedo in 1870, as indicated by markings on the right side of the frame. The revolver loosely follows the French M.1858, except for a shape of the grip and Belgian-style frame. Open top design. Single action. The revolver had seen a service with Spanish continental army until 1888, and with Spanish colonial forces until the turn of the century. Many revolvers of this type were captured during the Spanish American War in Cuba and Philippines. (Ref. "Geschichte und Technik der europaischen Militarrevolver" by Rolf H. Muller, pp. 1144-1145).Caliber - 12mm Photo1Photo2Photo3Photo4Photo5And here is a close up shot of Pantaleon Garcias holstered pistol. The butt looks "somewhat" like the pistol above.
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Post by RayAdillO on Jul 13, 2007 17:56:42 GMT -5
RayadillO, Im sure many pistols were bought from HK and Europe. I would kind of think those would be "one off" pieces. Since this is war they are going in to and many of these officers would be right in the thick of things, I would think some would opt for the pistol that is more widely available to them...being these "one off" pistols would have specific cartridges and not be compatible with any other. Resulting in having inadequate ammo supply to themselves. . Jawohl, I agree. It would be safest to assume that by and and large, Filipinos actually used more of the pistol types akin to those in service with the Spanish Army del Oriente. Of course, I'm just specualting...but here was the situation: 1) In those days, armies seldom "issued" items like swords and pistol sidearms to officers. Unless you were a ranker in the cavalry, a civil guard or provincial policeman etc., a pistol would normally not be issued. 2) So pistols are often acquired by private purchase by the officer class. The most that can be done to standardize is issue quartemaster directives as to which models would be highly recommended. 3) At about this time, the Spanish were still using pistols designed in the 1880s, pistols which use old fashioned and smoky "black powder" ammunition. 4) The brief exile of Filipino revolutionists in Hong Kong prior to their retun at the outbreak of the Spanish-American War was the best opportunity the Filipinos had for the procurement of large quantities of firearms and munitions, other than what they hope to capture from the Spanish; or beg from the Americans. The only sure supply of pistol ammunition they could guarrantee themselves at that moment was what they can order and bring with them from Hong Kong, or wherever else outside of the Philippines they may have been. 5) After Dewey made shortwork of the Spanish squadron off Manila Bay, It was not yet known at the time if Filipinos were going to have a war with the Americans. What they did know was that the from now on, "mopping up" the Spanish will not be as difficult as before. So a pinoy expat in HongKong with some cash in his pockets looking to be an officer in Aguinaldo's army had a non-too easy choice....buy an eibar or lefauchaux?- sensible, buy what the U.S. Army uses?...sensible also, buy a Mauser?..... Now if I bought a Mauser, I know that the smokeless 9mm round is what is up and comming. So it would be an investment which may serve me longer, plus the propaganda value of having such a futuristic looking pistol to show off and cut a dash with the ladies back home ;D Finally, pistols are heirlooms which are supposedly valuable and handier to keep than a rifle or shotgun; but I rarely if ever saw a single lefachaux at any one of the private and public museums back in the Philippines. I did see several Mauser broomhandles though. But then again, you were asking about "revolvers", so you may regard all these references to the German "automatic" as somewhat off-topic. I just wanted to blabber, that's all THE PISTOL WHICH WINSTON CHURCHILL USED DURING THE CHARGE AT OMDURMAN, 1898
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Post by dimasalang on Jul 14, 2007 17:43:42 GMT -5
But then again, you were asking about "revolvers", so you may regard all these references to the German "automatic" as somewhat off-topic. I just wanted to blabber, that's all THE PISTOL WHICH WINSTON CHURCHILL USED DURING THE CHARGE AT OMDURMAN, 1898 RayadillO, you make perfect sense. I never knew a auto type pistol was available to the Katipunan in that era...if I knew that the title of this thread would of read, "Pistols used by the Katipunan". Being that they did purchase thousands of Remington and Mauser rifles, it wouldnt be to far fetch to assume they purchased Mauser handguns as well. Thanks for the insight.
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Post by beancent on Sept 21, 2007 0:10:41 GMT -5
salamat mga kapatid! at last my questions about handguns were answered.
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Post by Personofinterest on Aug 30, 2015 0:06:37 GMT -5
I share the same sentiment after I lucked into a working m96 mauser pistol. Dated it to about 1897. Wouldnt be far fetched if the german sent a fewof these along with the mauser shipments to promote them. Speaking of pistols which the katipunan used, I suppose it would only be natural that they used whatever they can capture or steal from the Spanish. But for the Philippine Republican Army, many of whose wealthy illustrado officers lived and studied in Europe, or otherwise spent their post-katipunan exile in Hong Kong; it wouldn't be too far fetched if one or two bought for themselves an early mark Webley or maybe even a C96 "broom handle" Mauser?
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