phil.commonwealth army cartridge belt

[foxholefrank]

;D HELLO TROOPS,
I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT I THINK THE PHILIPPINE COMMONWEALTH ARMY CARTRIDGE BELT WAS AS FAR AS PHIL. GOVT. ISSUE .
NOW,I'M NOT SAYING THEY WERE NOT ISSUED U.S. 10 POCKET AMMO BELTS AT TIMES ,BUT IF YOU CHECK CLOSELY PHOTOS OF THEIR BELTS YOU CAN SEE SNAPS ON EACH SIDE TO ACCEPT SINGLE CARTRIDGE POUCHES.ALSO YOU CAN TELL THE POUCHES ARE SLID ON THE BELT AS EACH MAN IN THE PHOTO HAS POUCHES IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE BELT. ( SEE BATAAN ,OUR LAST DITCH BY WHITMAN ,PHOTO SECTION,3 ABREAST MARCHING)I'M GUESSING SNAPS WERE ON AT LEAST 4 ON EACH SIDE OR MAYBE COMPLETELY AROUND THE BELT AT INTERVALS.
THE WIDTH OF A BELT BUCKLE (MALE AND FEMALE) ON A U.S. 10 POCKET BELT IS ABOUT 4 1/8TH INCH.I DUG MANY PHIL.AMMO BELT PARTS ON BATAAN WHICH ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT ,LIGHTER FLAT BRASS AND SOMEWHAT CRUDER MADE. I FEEL THESE ARE PARTS OF THE LOCALLY MADE BELTS AND THE BUCKLE PIECES MEASURE ALITTLE OVER 2 1/2 INCHES.
I FEEL THESE BELTS COULD HAVE BEEN PATTERNED AFTER THE MODEL 1910 GARRISON BELT FOR ENLISTED MEN AS MADE FOR THE PC IN PRE WAR YEARS. (SEE DORSEYS BOOK"U.S. MARTIAL WEB BELTS, PAGE 89,92 AND 93).THIS BELT ALSO HAD A WEB BAYONET SCABBARD SLIDE .
NOW ,I'M JUST TRYING TO ADD ALITTLE INPUT SO OTHERS CAN SEE WHAT THEY CAN FIND OUT ALSO. I FEEL THE DUG PARTS DON,T LIE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
"REMEMBER BATAAN"
FOXHOLEFRANK

Admin edit: posting Frank's photos for him

[VeeVee]

Great stuff Frank. Were you able to dig up firearms or parts of firearms too? Did you use a metal detector?

[RayAdillO]

I completely overlooked this valuable piece of information.

The Philippine made belt really does look different.


Would anyone know if such a cartridge belt is still available anywhere? (see encricled in blue)


I wonder if I can just use the pistol belt and fit it with the regular cartridge pouches.

[hawkins2ndcav]

Good luck finding one and if you do, better have some serious $$$ to put out. The belt circled in blue is the 1912 Cavalry web belt. This belt was part of a complete set of individual equipment that was brought out in 1912 and underwent field testing during the Punitive Expedition in 1916. The 1912 cavalry equipment was set to be replace all the pre-existing cavalry equipment but negative experiences during the Punitive Expedition slosed down replacement. Ultimately, the US entry into the WWI and the need to mass produce web gear pretty much sidelined any further attempts and much of the cavalry gear was adapted from infantry models. There is no reproduction available and the originals I've seen on ebay have sold in the neighborhood of $500-$600.

The ring you see on the belt was a spring-loaded leather ring that was meant to go around the upper handguard of the rifle while the butt of the rifle went into a bucket attached to the saddle and natrually was used to secure the rifle while mounted. Like a lot of the Army's ideas on equipment, this was one of the not-so-good ones because it basically locks the rider in and if for some reason the rider needs to rapidly dismount, it's going to be almost impossible. Also, if you fall off, you're going to be in a world of hurt (trust me, on several occassions I've been dumped off of horses with a rifle strapped on on and it HURTS ). Overall, a really stupid design.

For a good overview on US Cavalry uniforms and equipment, I recommend The Horse Soldier by Randy Steffen and especially Volumes III and IV (Volume IV is out of print and hard to locate but worth it).

Hope that helps.

[VeeVee]

There was a belt like that that sold on ebay a few months ago... for (drum roll) ... $2,100 and change.

[hawkins2ndcav]

Must have missed that one! But it proves my point... ;D

Funny some of the prices this stuff fetches on ebay- for a model that was pretty flawed. Amazing!

[mish]

Check this other one out: A $2,500.00 Buy-It-Now. I think I'll... pass.

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=370072040408

[hawkins2ndcav]

You know, if you talk nice to Jerry Lee at WPG, he might reproduce it.

Jerry Lee has been producing quite a few interesting early period items and he's open to suggestions.