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Post by labrador on Nov 6, 2011 23:11:28 GMT -5
Instead of heading out to the airsoft fields saturday, the Dead Soldiers Society and BNK made their way to Mall of Asia to help celebrate the launch of the Milsim Elite Webzine. Decked out in our finest period uniforms we made our way through Manila Traffic and parked at the huge lot behind MOA (next to Viking buffet and Hooters)...As usual, the BNK and WW2 guys made it a lot earlier than the moderns but there was a lot of eye candy - booths from the Philippine Marines, NAVSOG and others showed off the latest hardware of each branch of service. On exhibit too were a V150S and a Simba as well as some personnel carriers. We established ourselves at the CRSAFP tent and spent the next 30 minutes getting our equipment on. (that bloody M31 LBE system really is a b@tch to put on.) In all my excitement, i forgot to bring my camera. many thanks to blackdragon for saving the day. We were surprised when at 11AM we were told to assemble at the personnel carrier displays for the motorcade...We became PANZERGRENADIERS!!!! I secured a plum spot at the commanders cupola and the assembled press had a field day of taking our pictures. They even had hughdotoh and 3MS man the driver and radio operator seats so they could have an all german crew. Driving around was fun. specially when people noticed there was something different about what the vehicle commander was wearing. They'd stare up at me, and i'd stare right back at them. After a short drive around we disembarked to do a quick parade through the mall grounds. It felt like a disneyland main street parade. I wanted to accost passers by and ask them for their papers.... after debarking from the spahpanzer. (that's my ride in the background) dr.evil trying to look charming for the MOP's (members of the public) Mall security was at work again looking for concealed weapons: Dax got some temporary employment ("straggler wanted" sign is behind him) jpavi rose to legionnaire's challenge!!!! brave, brave man: Ka Larry ronquillo was far braver, however: Just look at the delight in the reenactors faces! Here he is posing with his secret weapon, the anti magellan grenade launcher. (that's real steel folks!) Larry made the mistake of adjusting his bahag in front of some mirrored glass. It turned out to be the dining area of Viking buffet. I'm sure some guests wanted to run out to stick bills in his g- string. The axis in the mall: A visiting japanese dignitary: Viva la revoluccion!!!! The muggy weather didn't really agree with our authentic wool uniforms but we managed to bear it with a little help from our sponsors: Note strategic corporate logo placement. A more appropriate impression: Someone wanted to hold pjavi's gun: Some R&R before heading off to the 'nam: jnmodeler got sentimental and turned into a Tamiya figure: Heading back to hooters...i mean the exhibit area! the guardia civil was present as well: as was the CRSAFP: After a short break, we headed to the atlantik wall to await the invasion: As usual, the allies were victorious! dogmeat atop the "point du not-so hoc" Dan's unique version of Harajuku Philippines: He wanted to take home some mementos: Dan was so authentic he was addressed by some elderly hapanese tourists in nippongo. They even asked for a photo! the command staff secretly retired for a meeting at an undisclosed location: and took some souvenir photos while they were at it: Dogmeat with the NAVSOG elite. Some of the assembled reenactors: ....WAIT! is that che guevarra? I thought rebel outfits were banned!!! that's all folks, from your gruppe kriegsberichter, Albrecht! Do post more pics if you've got 'em! Oh and by the way! they finally switched military cosplayer to reenactor! huzzah!
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Post by pedroscollection on Nov 7, 2011 8:52:44 GMT -5
Sorry both my computer in the office & at home don't anymore have a button to place photos, I don't know why. Anyway, you can see the photos in my camera at my facebook at : pedrojavier36
Mabuhay; Perry
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Post by jnmodeller on Nov 7, 2011 10:21:59 GMT -5
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Post by labrador on Nov 7, 2011 10:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by legionnaire on Nov 7, 2011 10:53:04 GMT -5
jpavi rose to legionnaire's challenge!!!! brave, brave man:
Yes Congradulations for representing their traditional dress. i will acknowledge Perry for wearing it right. And as a first!
A lot of wrong mismatch military issue clothing and gear put together to represent the "Igorot Constabulary ".
- The grey camano was worn until 1906
- They were issued the white or faded khaki 1880 Mills cartridge belt for the Krag rifle. not the 1910 cartridge belt designed for the Springfield rifle while wearing the camano grey.
- Puttees were not issued worn with the "Ba ag" but instead they wore below the knee a metallic style "cuff". Not sure of it's name.
- As the discussion in another forum mentioned the rattan "backpack" was a only personal belonging and wearing it on "parade" was not allowed by regulation.
And from what I know part of the "fashion show" presentation was to describe it's historical background and significance to the public. So representing what the military uniform they actually did wear at this particular time period is misleading and we are suppose to help educated the uninformed public with proper research. So we possible eliminate being mistakenly identified in the future as " are you Japanese?" by the public.
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Post by legionnaire on Nov 7, 2011 11:04:10 GMT -5
Even the GMA news calls it "Cosplay fashion show"? what that really means is a children's "anime scifi costume fashion show"?
Aren't you guys representing traditional military uniforms of different armed forces? Which would be correctly and respectively called a historical military impression or reenacting representing the military man in uniform.
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Post by labrador on Nov 7, 2011 11:30:26 GMT -5
That was just the news report that called it that. the event website acknowledged the change from cosplayer to reenactor. whew. finally. legionnnaire! to quote oddball from kelly's heroes "always with the negative waves, moriarty,always with the negative waves!" no worries. thanks for the constructive advice, and see you soon!
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Post by bravotwozero on Nov 7, 2011 14:36:17 GMT -5
The pictures and impressions all look great. But I do agree that you should separate yourselves from being identified as "Cosplay" participants. Here in Los Angeles, Living History events and Anime Conventions hardly ever cross paths. I've been to both. "Cosplay" is short for "Costume Play". Living History is where you try to portray or represent a period in history. I've never seen, at least in the ones that I participated, World War II or authentic uniforms in an Anime convention/Cosplay, and vice-versa. To me, Cosplay is non-historical at all and cheapens historical impressions. But, that's just my opinion though.
Congratulations on an ever expanding interest in historical authenticity there in the Philippines. Just don't get your messages mixed with the public into thinking you are part of the Anime genre. Especially now that the interest and participation is only going to get bigger.
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Post by labrador on Nov 7, 2011 17:14:43 GMT -5
to clarify, we were presented as reenactors and not cosplayers at the event. we made sure the event organizer made the distinction, and from now on, reenactor will be the term used. Since the local media is not familiar with the term "reenactor" they used the term military cosplay. We do participate sometimes as reenactors at cosplay events to drum up interest in our genre because it is in its infancy. thus it helps people become familiar with historical reenactments. Unlike in the US and Europe, where there has been a long tradition of reenactment, in the Philippines we are still establishing awareness, and if we need to bend definitions a little bit i am very sure it does us no harm. My daughter is a cosplayer and they pay every bit as much attention as we do to detail and authenticity, and so by seeing reenactors at their events, they gain a great appreciation for what we are trying to do. I hope that clarifies things a bit.
We understand your concern but here in asia we have had to start off differently.
Thanks very much for your support! i hope you guys continue to watch us grow in the hobby.
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Post by bravotwozero on Nov 7, 2011 18:01:26 GMT -5
That's good! Just a suggestion, although I'm not sure if this is easier said than done. Since the Philippine reenactor population is steadily growing, you should create your own events without having to piggy-back with the Cosplay group. Stress that these events are "Living History" or what BNK stands for, "Buhay Na Kasaysayan". That would draw attention that you guys are passionate and want to educate the public about history. Keep up the good job! Of course I will always be supportive of your growth there. That's why I addressed my point that you should be the serious historians that you are. It's pretty exciting for me to see you guys dress up accurately over here. I just hope to be able to attend one of your events someday.
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Post by legionnaire on Nov 7, 2011 18:55:05 GMT -5
I may sound negative, but you have to understand the "Igorot" Constabulary, " Lapu lapu" ( I would say be given 1st prize) , and the Class A PS or PC and the two PS "an angel of bataan", and katipunero impressions are the most relevant to the AFP exhibit as it is directly a part of very rich Philippine military history.
We have to proudly portray it correctly as this is our culture and history which should be the main important focus, specially due to the fact that it is to honor those Filipino soldiers of the AFP who sacrifice their lives for our country.
Thank you Albert for posting the pictures.
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Post by labrador on Nov 7, 2011 19:05:25 GMT -5
No worries, B20 and legionnaire. We understand your concern. We have a few events coming up in the pipeline that i'm sure you'll be delighted to see.
Oh and about the deutsche soldaten? hehe. I know it was bizarre but the AFP guys asked for these uniforms in particular so what the hell. We had a huge trip doing it. The purpose as far as our group was concerned was to increase awareness for our WW2 airsoft group. After all, it was a Milsim Airsoft event. the tribute aspect of the activity came much later after the ambush and death of Lt. Khe, who by the way ws very active in organizing airsoft events.
Stay tuned guys. We will not disappoint.
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Post by bravotwozero on Nov 7, 2011 19:47:38 GMT -5
No worries, B20 and legionnaire. We understand your concern. We have a few events coming up in the pipeline that i'm sure you'll be delighted to see. Oh and about the deutsche soldaten? hehe. I know it was bizarre but the AFP guys asked for these uniforms in particular so what the hell. We had a huge trip doing it. The purpose as far as our group was concerned was to increase awareness for our WW2 airsoft group. After all, it was a Milsim Airsoft event. the tribute aspect of the activity came much later after the ambush and death of Lt. Khe, who by the way ws very active in organizing airsoft events. Stay tuned guys. We will not disappoint. I'm sure you guys won't disappoint. I have no doubt about that. I'm not privy to the current events there but I'm glad that you pay tribute to the fallen soldiers such as Lt. Khe. Please honor the memory of the soldiers you are all portraying by making sure you are not clowning around when you're wearing historical uniforms. And try to stick to the right timeframe for each uniform. It may be funny to see a Lapu-lapu warrior with a modern weapon, but are you about comedy or authenticity? In one of the living history events that I attended, a guy dressed up as a World War II German soldier cut his hand (only slightly but he was bleeding nonetheless) with his bayonet. He wouldn't put any bandaid on it because it wasn't accurate for the period he is portraying. Regarding the interest for the German uniforms. I don't find it bizarre at all. There is always huge interest in the Germans, just look at the Dragon models, they sell a lot of German stuff. As always, I'm looking forward to your photos. Especially the ones taken by you Albert!
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Post by VeeVee on Nov 7, 2011 22:53:13 GMT -5
Thanks Albert. Karma sent
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Post by pedroscollection on Nov 8, 2011 17:21:22 GMT -5
1. Why do we join cosplays??? As mentioned by Jojo Nicolas, If I, Ding & Selwyn did not wore the historical uniform is a 2005 cosplay in SM MegaMall, Jojo Nicolas & Jojo Dy who were both cosplay organizers will not be able to join the historical reenactment. Now look at the 2 Jojos...they contributed allot on historical events, even add 6-8 members & friends from thewir family during our events.
2. If you like to influence people, especially the youth who many of them join cosplays, etc... you must do with them. After they see you, then you can influence them little by little. Diba, the teacher you admire in school is the teacher who joins with you, who share jokes with you, ...considering them as your friend? If that happens, influencing the youth, educating them will be easier, than a teacher who is not approachable right? Similar in this scenario. If you want to penetrate the youth & other people, you must go with them, then nfluence them later.
3. Do not be little the cosplayers. Yes they are fantasy, but they are excellent artistic talent to reproduce. They can make armors which later on we can make Roman armnor or knights...etc. as example. Only some of the historical reenactors are good in reproducing like Jojo who make repro helmets, Ray Ortega made the guinit hat,... but most of us rely to buy a ready made repro or original stuff right??? But look at the artistic side of the cosplayers. When you can influence & make others to join our group, they'll contribute allot. We are here to build bridges not walls.
4. Saying "Cosplayers are cheap..." pls. be careful, many military reenactors like Jojo N, Jojo Dy, Eric Nicolas, ... are coisplayers too. You might hurt them.
5. The Filipino military reenactors here influence as many people as possible with different groups & discipline. We join & educate people either in the Military (AFP), the museums / universities / colleges we do lectures, exhibits, & even cosplays at malls. We do not discriminate. Thus different groups of people have different styles & approach. If you want to get / influence more youth in the Philippines, you will see them most on cosplays, not on museums that most of the people there are middle & old age. As Rizal had said, the youth is the hope of the country... so lets plant & invest on the youth.
6. Well I do agree that too much horse playing is disrespectful to the military uniform, but some are yet tolerable that can just be associated to fun. Maybe we can discuss this separately & make some guidelines what funny things are tolerable & what is not.
7. Regarding "Fun", the are many this & different ways to express our love of country, our nationalism, etc, etc. Look at the US, they make the US flag as costumes & even worn by very hot sexy girls on parade, etc... with on the later part there are soldiers on parade too when I watch TV, movies, etc... Can we say that what the US do to their flag is disrespectful as this practice is not proper in the Philippines? It depends on the culture right? Look at the Phil Military Academy or other AFP branches, after they perform their silent drills, they dance on the current modern music. Can we say they are wrong from which these are approved by the Chief of Staff or even the President? They like to be closer to the people. What I say is there are different ways depending on the culture on how to express love & nationalism.
Perry
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Post by labrador on Nov 8, 2011 18:58:11 GMT -5
Yup. have a look at the roots of ww2 reenactment and historical reenactment back in the 70'sand 80's back in england. Step into the beer tent at beltring after the battles and you will see that we are not so far apart. Also, please do not take the "fun" photos out of context. These are snippets of an entire day. I'm sure if you look at the photos of our activities in bataan you can see that we can also be serious. Let's move on and celebrate that we've all found this hobby, calling, profession. i'm sure we can all agree that we are proud to be part of this community.
On to the next reenactment!
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Post by bravotwozero on Nov 8, 2011 19:50:32 GMT -5
Hi Perry,
Here are my responses to your points: 1) Okay. Since you shared, me, I have participated in Cosplaying because that’s where I get to wear my Star Wars uniforms. Yes, I am also a Cosplayer.
2) I agree with what you said. But, I still think Living History is not the same as Cosplaying. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point. No offense intended.
3) I did not belittle the Cosplayers, where did I say that? Can you please quote the exact sentence where I said this? I am a Cosplayer myself. I have Star Wars Storm Trooper and TIE Fighter outfits. If I belittle Cosplayers, then I belittle myself. This would not make sense.
I am impressed with Cosplayers and their outfits. BTW, Roman armor or medieval knights are historical too. They are in the Living History events here, not at Anime or Cosplaying. I just think that reenacting and Cosplaying are like oil and water. I just don’t agree in mixing fantasy and facts. That’s just me. I’m not the hear all, say all. What does it matter with what I say, right? Everyone’s entitled to their opinions. Just because you think something is pretty doesn't mean I will think the same way. Everything is a matter of opinion.
5) If you read my message, I never said “Cosplayers are cheap.” Again, if you think I said that, can you point it out and quote me? Note, I have not edited my entries.
My exact words are: Quote: You’re the one that should be careful. Don’t put other meanings in my message. What I meant to say with that phrase was: since Cosplaying is fictional, mixing something like reenacting, historical reenacting to be specific, cheapens reenacting itself. I stress again that I don’t agree with mixing fantasy with history. Take note, this board is called “Pinoyhistory” not “Pinoyfantasy”. Again, the above statement is still my opinion. I don't think it is malicious and it is not intended to hurt anyone.
5) Okay.
6) It was my suggestion. But you don’t have to follow me. Who am I anyway, right? It’s all up to you. You can all do what you want. For me, I just can’t see myself spending a lot of time, money, research, on completing a uniform only to look silly. I may as well get a Ronald McDonald outfit if I want to clown around. It’s your decision to be viewed as historians. I’d leave the comedy to the comedians.
7) Not sure where this came from. But, I agree, this must be cultural. My opinion is based on the two worlds that I have participated at, Cosplaying and Reenacting. They are separate here but I guess they are not there. So, we can agree to disagree with this view. No offense intended.
Joseph
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Post by labrador on Nov 8, 2011 20:18:30 GMT -5
Uhm, yes, perry, he is right. he never did say cosplay was cheap. hehe. These kinds of disagreements all stem from the fact that we are ALL very PASSIONATE with our HOBBY.
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Post by legionnaire on Nov 8, 2011 22:06:36 GMT -5
I completely agree with Joseph on all his points he elaborated.
Military impression and reenacting is NOT a "fashion show or a Cosplay". If it were then the Germans would always win first place! ;D
Cosplay is about inventing fictional costumed characters and show casing them to all the die fans of Anime hobby, which originated in Japan. I see a lot of Japanese Reenactors but they have their own event not associated with their cosplay. And everyone knows about Japan's reenacting culture.
What is a fashion show? It is a showcase exhibition display of "THE latest" trends and new designs that would be the new look or fashion "in" thing for Hi society by fashion experts. It does have it's own long history as the French were and still the top leaders on the clothing industry.
Military impression and reenacting is about portraying actual historical fact not fiction (anime or super hero costumes). Military Reenacting is recreating a specific period in history or time that factually did happen What were the unit's insignias and it's history, what were their medals for? Who participated in a specific battle in recorded history. The equipment, vehicles and their way of life as an ordinary soldier and heroes.
This is THE best education tool to the public about history. History channel and film industry extensively used them. That's why we have reenactment "battles" as a small preview of what really took place and to tell our heroes stories. That's why I joined the Philippine Scouts Heritage Society a genuine veterans organization
"to promote the History and Legacy of the Scouts for present and future generations!"
Philip
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Post by insurrectomad on Nov 8, 2011 22:33:54 GMT -5
I would like to remind the critics that the Filipino re-enactors in total are at this point in time a tiny fraction of those groups that begun oversea in the USA, Europe and Japan for instance that now number there membership in thousands. The first English Civil War "battle re-enactment" participants numbered 160 to start with; -as many as perform the Macton Battle each year I think. Re-enactment in the Philippines is just starting, with the blessing of the armed forces only a year established. We have little other support from anyone else. The Phil. Film and TV studios and Industry show no inmarketsterest in us or make any contact with us. Unlike in Europe, USA, Japan & Korea for example You have antique markets, military model stores, military collectors markets etc. In all these countries their armed forces have traditional uniforms for every regt.-some can field a 100 men in period uniforms and weapons of the 16th, 17th,18th, and 19th centuries. The Phils. can't or won't finance the maintenance of monuments. Mt. Samat shrine for example is falling apart! as an Englishmen in the BNK I share your concerns about authenticity but here in the Phil. every item must be bought from overseas or custom made to order. On top of all that there is the penal gun laws! In Korea the most popular TV Soap is about a waring family during wars in the 17th cent. Japan & China have made dozens of them which have inspired students to form societies re-enacting their history. In their countries The TV, and Press Promote and exhort the students to do tese things. We are doing the best we can from a ground zero position. A major handicap is that unlike any other country, many Filipinos still think of themselves as an American colony of mini state of The USA. I bet even on the all Fil. TV Station in California, you won't see any news coverage or interest in events such as ours be they in Phils. or USA even. I pray that the "El Presidente" film about Aguinaldo is successful and sparks something. At the Milsim Event I asked the organizers why they did not ask the army to lend 2 drummers to head the parade and where was the charity tin-cans for the marshals & helpers escorting the parade? We did not even have a loud-hailer. "Thats a good idea! Next time". I could have cried!
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