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Post by paopadd on Jul 8, 2009 15:44:19 GMT -5
 Inside the Museo ng Katipunan in Lipa City, Barangay Bulaklakan there is one of the original salakot belonged to the "Supremo " Andres Bonifacio, at the top of that salakot there is a black five pointed star , i think that is one of the first representation of the star among the Katipunan and revolutionaries symbols, why he and the katipunan members didn't adopted the star as symbol it's not so clear... What is your opinion friends ? |
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Post by indiosbravos on Jul 9, 2009 19:17:29 GMT -5
Any proof that this was actually from the Supremo or was actually worn by any Katipuneros during the Supremo's reign? Just a naive question not intended to court an argument....
Hi, Where about are you in Italy? You've been to Rizal's Monument in Rome?
Lawrence
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Post by RayAdillO on Jul 9, 2009 23:31:23 GMT -5
The painter of this mural must have wanted to depict Andres Bonifacio as some type of late 19th century communist to the point of conveniently subduing the KKK letters into obscurity.  If the salakot was used by Bonifacio, it may well be that the "black star" was merely coincidental. Many salakots are adorned with a "starshaped" ornament on top, some of which serve as a base for a small finial or a spike in more fasionable ones. The Magdiwang faction of the Katipunan used the triangle, the letter "K", or baybayin "I", the sun, the skull, and the red, white & black colors. (the Bismarckian "blood and iron" colors of Imperial Germany?) Bonifacio did work as a sales agent for a German firm in the Philippines once, coincidence? I think Bonifacio's Katipunan was "nationalist" but not yet "republican" in outlook. Bonifacio may have been open to the idea of a "native monarchy" as in a "Kaharian ng Kataggalugan". (Bonifacio had probably not yet comes to terms with using "Filipinas" or "Filipinos" to describe the new nation they were foriming, so he used the term "Kataggalugan" to describe the "native identity" not limited to mean just the tagalogs. The Magdalo faction of Aguinaldo later adopted more of the French and American "republican" symbolisms....the red, white and blue colors, the five-pointed stars, etc. |
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Post by paopadd on Jul 10, 2009 15:42:14 GMT -5
We don't have any proof that the salakot belonged to Bonifacio just the words of the curators of the Museo ng katipunan ; they told me the salakot was donated to the owner of the museum by some Bonifacio 's relatives...
Inever seen the Rizal's monument in Rome, i hope i will see it next year when i will go to Rome.
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Post by paopadd on Jul 10, 2009 16:09:46 GMT -5
I don't think that the black star on the salakot (supposed ) of Bonifacio was merely coincidental ; anyway, the star was depicted in black, one of the first color of the KKK ...maybe the star symbolized the KKK....
You are right : red, black and white were the colors of the Katipunan the same colors of the Imperial Germany and Prussia too (white and black ) but i think the chooise of the German colors was only a coincidence.
These colors belongs to the Masonry but red was the traditional color of uprising and war in all the far east lands of Asia, particularly in the Philippine-indonesian and Malaysian Area.
About the tricolor blue, white and red ; you wrote :
""The Magdalo faction of Aguinaldo later adopted more of the French and American "republican" symbolisms....the red, white and blue colors, the five-pointed stars, etc. ".
The Magdalo, better the Aguinakldo's group in H:K. adopted the tricolor in honor of the U.S.A. , also the star on flags came from the american flags: the meaning of one star for one land or region or island has american origin, after the first american flag (13 stars ) many Countries around the world adopted this tradition and symbolism on flags , seal and coat of arms.. .
About Bonifacio's idea of nationalism or monarchy i think it's a very hard question to reply just we must consider that among the lectures of the "Supremo" were "le Miserables" of Victor Hugo in which the epic of :" La Commune de Paris" was so well illustred. so we can say he had an idea about the meaning or Monarchy or Republic ...isn't it ?
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Post by RayAdillO on Jul 11, 2009 1:07:11 GMT -5
About Bonifacio's idea of nationalism or monarchy i think it's a very hard question to reply just we must consider that among the lectures of the "Supremo" were "le Miserables" of Victor Hugo in which the epic of :" La Commune de Paris" was so well illustred. so we can say he had an idea about the meaning or Monarchy or Republic ...isn't it ? I rather like the idea of a "Black Star", would that be some sort of personal emblem of the "supremo" himself or a "special branch" of the katipunan if not the secret society as a whole? Very intersting if we can find out more. There could be many interpretations of Les Miserables, relative to their time. In an age of Kings, even an enlightened despot like Napoleon could probabaly have enjoyed working class populism, as opposed to a Danton or a Robespierre. The european revolutions of the 1830s and 40s were not like the Paris "commune" of 1870. But yes Bonifacio himself could have had a "proletarian" outlook, but I can't really say if he thought of the independence struggle in terms of conflicting class interests. To some extent, it could be reasoned that the "nationalism" he had in mind had "racial" implications, that it was a struggle between "blood brothers of the native land vs. foreign white clerical domination and the Spanish monarchy which co-opted the usurious rule of the catholic religious orders over agrarian lands. Neither Magdiwang or Magdalo factions viewed the native upperclasses, (not only native merchants, but native land owners included), as "userpers", regardless of whether or not or they belonged to the liberal-minded illustrado intelligentsia. I'm just speculating of course, but one "antidote" which could have been considered by Bonifacio was the establishment of a "Native Philippine Independent Church" aimed not only at supplanting the "foreign catholic church", but one that would also "annoint" a native king that would insure a role for the new church as the 'state religion". The new regime, being a native one can thus be entrusted to rule more justly over it's own kind. Freemasonry never was or is "anti-monarchist". The protestant kings of Prussia like Frederick the Great were themselves freemasons. It's just that the catholic church was decidedly anti-masonic. |
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Post by insurrectomad on Jul 12, 2009 0:40:51 GMT -5
If Bonifacio was responsible for the black star being painted on the salakot, I don't think it would ever have been considered as a national emblem for the Philippines. Long before the use of it by the Americans, it had been adopted by Muslim states . the sun on the other hand has been used by most Countries in the East. Rizal referred to it also in his last poem. The American adoption of the stars & strips was inspired by the coat of heraldic arms belonging to the Washington family. George Washington's parents left England for the "Land of the Free" when the monarchy was restored after the death of Oliver Cromwell ( The Lord Protector). George Washington often drove his coach wagon to the battlefields. this supplied him a mobile home and office. the family coat of arms (Shield) was painted on the side doors of the coach. The Shield contained a single white star set in the center of a deep blue horizontal bar across the top quarter of the shield. beneath that was 4? red and white strips dropping vertically. The ancestral manor house and farmland was purchased by the American Govt. & was given American territorial recognition by the Brits as a gift. Not many asylum seeker's know that! Therefore the the colours red, white & blue that were chosen purely by the ordained ones of the Washington coat of arms (that go back to the Middle-Ages), are random to America. My ancestor's Shield is green with a single gold bar (inflamed), centered top to bottom with a rampant black lion on it. The American colours to be faithful to the original order of colours, should give preference to the blue over the white and red. The salakot is almost unique to the Philippines but under pressure no doubt from American colonial authorities has been abandoned by Philippine officials & dignitaries. I wrote to the Director of Phil. Tourism in 2000 suggesting it be resurrected again and worn by all tourist officials at ceramonies & functions. Not adopted alas. -David
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Post by paopadd on Jul 20, 2009 17:28:18 GMT -5
Dear David, i'm agree with you, the black star was not a national symbol, maybe just a decorative symbol on the salakot of Bonifacio (but i would like to know more about this topic ); anyway, about the stars i know well that many Countries adopted the star as a symbol on flags , coat of arms , seals but the U.S.A. have been the first Country that adopted the star with a meaning of:" a star for every State, Territory or geographic entity..., " before this concept was almost unknown...
Some muslim States adopted the star on their flags and symbols but with a different meaning, one of the first was Turkey,( better the Ottoman Empire ) in XVIII century, the other States adopted the stars following the ottoman style because Konstantinyie (Istanbul ) was a sacred place and hometown of the Sultan :" The admiral of the faith ".
About the traditional colors of the United Stated you are right: they were mutuated by the Washington's symbols...Maryland is another good sample where they adopted heraldic symbols as a symbol of the State.
Stay well
Paolo
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