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Post by VeeVee on Jun 18, 2007 10:39:57 GMT -5
I totally forgot that the enfield is the appropriate rifle for the impression.
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 18, 2007 11:03:04 GMT -5
1939, Peacetime Dec. 1941 Outbreak of WWII in the P. I. You now lose one stripe Pvt. Verano! ;D Philip
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Post by RayAdillO on Jun 20, 2007 9:54:40 GMT -5
A Newly rediscovered watercolor painting by a "contemporary" of Fabian de la Rosa................... BANTAY SA APLAYA (Watch on the Beach) 1939 by Fra. Damian Domingo Rayadillo OFM, (no relation).
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 20, 2007 22:55:17 GMT -5
Nice work on the 1939 colorized postcard? Philip
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Post by VeeVee on Jun 20, 2007 23:08:36 GMT -5
Nice job. Do some more
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Post by Battlemaster on Jun 27, 2007 0:45:56 GMT -5
I like the one where the trooper wearing a backpack is lying semi-prone aiming a rifle. Very authentic looking.
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Post by RayAdillO on Jul 11, 2007 18:11:28 GMT -5
I like the one where the trooper wearing a backpack is lying semi-prone aiming a rifle. Very authentic looking. Thanks battlemaster, although I only wish I could make clearer pictures so at to be able to enlarge and photoshop them more easily ;D
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Post by RayAdillO on Jul 11, 2007 18:13:55 GMT -5
SHORT GUIDE TO PHILIPPINE ARMY UNIFORMS OF 1941, CIRCUMSTANCES OF SERVICE, AND LEGAL STANDINGThe Philippines was still officially U.S. territory in those days. There was no such thing as a "Filipino Citizen", as all Filipinos were technically U.S. nationals. What functioned as some sort of local miltary force or "National Guard" was the Insular Constabulary or "IC" which later became known as the Philippine Constabulary or "PC". Because the U.S. Congress approved commonwealth status to the islands in 1935 as preparatory to eventual independence by 1946, the PC became the basis for providing the nucleus in creating the Philippine Army. So just like the PC, the Philippine Army had to be financed and equipped like a National Guard unit not yet deployed for U.S. government service. It could not rely on the federal government for much of its material needs. It could buy from U.S. federal stocks for things which it cannot provide itself with such as rifles and artillery pieces. But items such as uniforms could largely be more easily procured from local manufacturers. Th PC provided much of its trained personnel to serve as experienced officers and NCOs into the Philippine Army, but many key officers and NCOs from the Philippine Scouts and the U.S. Army were also transferred to train and provide leadership to the Philippine Army; more so after it had been "federalized" into the USAFFE shortly before the outbreak of WW2 in the Pacific. A Very Important Point.......... WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN THE PHILIPPINE ARMY IS FEDERALIZED ?It simply means that any person who served in the Philippine Army from December 1941 to July of 1946 became (for all intents and purposes) a soldier in direct service to the United States of America and the U.S. federal government. He is made to swear an oath of loyatly to the U.S. Federal government and is expected to carry out his duty like any other American G.I. SO ALL FILIPINO VETERANS OF WW2 (REGARDLESS IF HE BE FROM THE CONSTABULARY, THE PHILIPPINE SCOUTS OR THE PHILIPPINE COMMONWEALTH ARMY) PERFORMED THEIR SERVICE AS U.S. NATIONALS UNDER U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SERVICE.GEE, THEN WHAT'S WITH THE SO CALLED RESCISSION ACT? With regards to benefits for war veterans, the U.S. government can choose who it can or will not allow benefits. These are regarded as "bonuses" and the government generally corresponds to the conservative maxim that U.S. soldiers are supposed to fight for America, not for money. However, its "choices" are highly debatable political questions. There were other similar cases such as the "Federalized" service of the U.S. Merchant Marine which also did absolutely vital convoy transport duties in WW2. Only in the late 1970s did the veterans of the Merchant Marine ever get full benefits....30 years too late for them to have bettered themselves with getting college diplomas using the G.I. bill. Typical Philippine Army draftees on wireless drill. Note the short pants and shirts as the basically the only items of khaki uniform normally issued to such troops, not exactly suitable for combat in the tropical jungles and rain forests of Bataan. The sunhelmet loosely patterned after the British "wolsley" pith helmet and made out of coconut fiber stiffened with multiple coatings of shellack which made it shine so brightly. During the war, orders were issued for Filipino soldiers to remove the shiny coat or paint over it with whatever can make it dull [img src="http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-7/1266152/philarmy_training[1].JPG"] This picture is often miscaptioned as "Philippine Army trainees". These men are actually college ROTC cadets on rifle training. Normally, only officers were issued full length khaki uniforms; particularly among the reserve divisions of the Philippine Army which formed the bulk of U.S. ground forces in Bataan. Note that they have cloth "pugaree" bands on their sun helmets, a feature in the coconut fiber helmets seen only among officer cadets in the ROTC, the Philippine Military Academy, and (with an army blue piping on top) for PA officers. PA officers on map reading lessons, note cloth pugaree bands on helmets topped with army blue piping.PA MG section. Note blue denim shirts and pants worn by the enlisted ranks, mandatory khaki on officer instructors. The moderate shade of blue denim "dungarees" used by the PA are cut similar to the standard long sleeve khaki shirt and are not stitched at the seams with white thread, unlike the U.S. Army version which have no pocket flaps and have white thread stitching at the seams of the shirt and pants. Philippine Army denims ARE NOT "herringbone twilled" cotton fabric. Also, the PA version uses coconut shell buttons while the U.S. Army dungarees uses aluminum alloyed metal buttons which only open through half-way of the shirt's chest, (see picture below).U.S. Army blue denim dungarees, as featured by WW2 Impressions; offering high quality reproductions a reasonable prices ;DTo conclude, the typical Philippine Army soldier primarily used blue denims as the only suitable uniform available for actual combat conditions. As the Bataan campaign progressed, the Philippine Army soldier gradually aquired for himself more and more items of uniform which made him look more like the average American soldier, usually starting with a steel helmet he may have picked up in the jungle or taken from a dead American or Philippine Scout comarade; and so on....Cest la guerre! Souscrivez! Il Vaincra!
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Post by milspec on Jul 12, 2007 20:53:41 GMT -5
Greetings Rayadillo,
Very informative piece. I learned a lot from this article of yours. Great reference pictures too. I'm kind of curious about the accroutements that they wore along with the uniforms. I've read somewhere that a lot of the field gear that was issued were left over from the First World War. So I'm confused as to whether I should be looking for M1910 to M1917 web gear and accroutements as compared to say an M1923 Cartridge belt or say the M1910 vs the M1936 Web belt. I know it can be a little anal but I can't help it but I've had people comment that say this belt didn't get issued til mid or late WWII even if the stamp says 1941. I have an M1928 Haversack which is very similar to the M1910 but the mess kit pouch has a strap and buckle instead of button and it has two straps in the back instead of one. I hope you can shed some more light on this dilemma.
milspec
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Post by legionnaire on Jul 12, 2007 21:14:28 GMT -5
Hi Milspec,
I have an M1928 Haversack which is very similar to the M1910 but the mess kit pouch has a strap and buckle instead of button and it has two straps in the back instead of one.
What the PA & PS used were the metal button attachement on the mess kit pouch and had one strap at the back that directly hooked into the back center hole of the ammo belt. But you can get away wqith the two strap if you want. The mess kit we use is the WWI version.
They PA & PS used WWI gear and webbing, except for the helmet chinstrap was the canvass hook type.
But the PS got issued the Garands and used them first in battle.
Philip
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victoree
History Buff
V for Vacate, Joe
Posts: 119
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Post by victoree on Jul 13, 2007 5:08:49 GMT -5
The 31st US traded off thier M1's to the Philipino troops for 1903's after the shooting started. They found them to be unreliable in combat. This may have been from lack of familarity with them or they appear to be of the gas trap model. That model was not the best system designed. I haven't seen any of the new model equipments in the US soldiers either.
Martin
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Post by VeeVee on Jul 13, 2007 6:33:20 GMT -5
Hi Martin, I never encountered a mention of that in any of the books I've read. Do you remember which book that was that you came across that info? It could be some isolated instances but I doubt if it was wholesale trading of rifles. The Filipinos also had Enfield 1917's and not 1903's. It is more notorious for its extra long stock and easily broken extractor. They couldn't have traded M1's for Enfields. They couldn't also have been unfamiliar with the M1 because the last few months prior to the start of the war, the US army in the PI had been under intense training. The 31st Infantry did take on some recruits from the American civilian populace when war started. It's possible that it was them who were unfamiliar with the rifle. 31st Infantry near Layac (notice the garand) Also here's a quote from Gen. MacArthur: General Douglas MacArthur reported on the M1 to the Ordnance Department during heavy fighting on Bataan that: "Under combat conditions it operated with no mechanical defects and when used in foxholes did not develop stoppages from dust or dirt. It has been in almost constant action for as much as a week without cleaning or lubrication."(taken from this site) patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/firearms_patentstechnology/index.htmlVictor
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victoree
History Buff
V for Vacate, Joe
Posts: 119
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Post by victoree on Jul 13, 2007 14:19:24 GMT -5
It came from Death March by Donald Knox. PFC Wilburn Snyder, 3rd Battalion Medics, 31st Infantry.
The rifles we had, the first M-1s, looked good but weren't worth a hoot in the field. We got tired of pulling the trigger and having nothing happen. Most of the 31st Infantry traded them off to the Filipinos for thier old Springfields. We knew when we pulled the bolt back on the '03 Springfield and shoved it forward, there would be a bullet in there ready to fire. You'd take am M1 out of it's rack, hold it carefully in the truck that took you out to the range, get out, shoot, and it would be great. But take it out in combat where it got misused and dirty, and it became highly undependable.
This is what I know about the lack of feeding. It is usually due to a couple of things. One the gas system isn't working, because it is dirty or the rifle is really dirty, not lubricated and the bolt is having problems cycling.
I am also wondering if the Springfields didn't appear after they started arming more soldiers. Everything seems to be such chaos after the war started.
Martin
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Post by RayAdillO on Jul 13, 2007 18:47:36 GMT -5
I did read somewhere from John Whitman's book "Bataan, Our Last Ditch" that there was scuttlebutt about the Scouts not being so happy about the M1 Garand on account of the fact that it was a relatively new issue and that the Scouts were much better trained with the M03 to shoot and fight with.
This "rumor" was picked up by a couple of G.I.s from and American who decided they might try to trade their Springfields for M1s with a neighboring PS unit. They gave up the attempt as they encountered Japanese patrols en-route towards that scout unit.
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Post by RayAdillO on Jul 13, 2007 19:18:52 GMT -5
Greetings Rayadillo, Very informative piece. I learned a lot from this article of yours. Great reference pictures too. I'm kind of curious about the accroutements that they wore along with the uniforms. I've read somewhere that a lot of the field gear that was issued were left over from the First World War. So I'm confused as to whether I should be looking for M1910 to M1917 web gear and accroutements as compared to say an M1923 Cartridge belt or say the M1910 vs the M1936 Web belt. I know it can be a little anal but I can't help it but I've had people comment that say this belt didn't get issued til mid or late WWII even if the stamp says 1941. I have an M1928 Haversack which is very similar to the M1910 but the mess kit pouch has a strap and buckle instead of button and it has two straps in the back instead of one. I hope you can shed some more light on this dilemma. milspec I'm more familiar with what the PA used, which essentially was what everybody else used at the time, except the PA had no specialized accoutrements (ex. for troops such as mounted cavalry) that I know of. here's a spread of personal equipment. note the canteen, cup, and mess kit, basically WW1 U.S. issue. The mess kit pouches appear to be the "one-button" type These are Philippine Military Academy cadets on MG excercise. Note the double snap first aid pouches. The ammo belts appear to be smooth down the base of the each pouch so it looks to be even the late 1936 model rather than the earlier "plaited bottom" ones. According to my dad, the PA were also issued gas masks and also used cloth cartridge bandoleers.
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Post by milspec on Jul 21, 2007 7:41:29 GMT -5
Greetings Rayadillo, Another great piece. Great Pictures too. I specially like the last one. Lots of detail. That looks like the Browning M1917 water cooled machine gun (WWI) and wow photographic evidence of the wooden ammo box for the 30.06 cartridge with the cloth ammo belt. There seems to be something like cloth wrapped around the haversack flap and meat can pouch (?). A friend of mine e-mailed me these illustrations of WWI and early WWII accoutrements. Do you know if all of these were issued to the PA and the Philippine Scouts? Photos of actual WWI equipment milspec
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Post by RayAdillO on Aug 1, 2007 5:29:51 GMT -5
Hi Milspec, what a neat spread of personal equipment! The Philippine Army were issued the watercooled Browning MGs. Some units were able to supplement their MG sections with air cooled MGs salvaged from damaged U.S. aircraft, using makeshift tripods for infantry use. The BAR was available to the PA, but shotguns were issued only to Philippine Constabulary units who were formed into the 2nd Regular Division or "PC Division" as far as Philippine Commonwealth units go. Submachine guns were exclusive to U.S. Army and mainland National Guard units stationed in the P.I. For personal equipment, standard U.S. military issue picks and shovels were used by U.S. units an the P.S. but seldom ever carried. The P.A. were not issued such items but instead used commerically available entrenching tools. WW I "Knuckle Duster" type trench knives were not issued to any units on Bataan, but a few individual soldiers may have privately aquired them. The Jungle bolo may have been exclusive to P.S. units. P.A. soldiers used civilian type jungle bolos with traditional "Manila hemp" or abaca fiber waist belts to fasten them.
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Post by milspec on Aug 1, 2007 22:21:21 GMT -5
Greetings Rayadillo,
Thanks for your insights into this interesting topic. It looks like I don't have to acquire an entrenching tool. It's kind of disappointing to find out that the PSs were not issued Thompson Sub-machine guns. This means that I'll have to start saving for an M-1 Garand. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
milspec
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Post by VeeVee on Aug 2, 2007 5:59:13 GMT -5
Well these are scouts. You could have an anti-sniper party impression
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victoree
History Buff
V for Vacate, Joe
Posts: 119
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Post by victoree on Aug 2, 2007 10:26:14 GMT -5
The issue becomes that you cannot find a gas trap M1 for any kind of reasonable price.
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