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Post by RayAdillO on Sept 6, 2007 8:24:49 GMT -5
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Post by VeeVee on Sept 7, 2007 12:12:35 GMT -5
Very interesting info. I learned something new. I've never seen these photos before either. Thanks for posting. Who asked the questions?
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Post by faustino on Sept 13, 2007 17:15:25 GMT -5
I LOVE THIS THREAD... great job Ray-adillo I have been wondering many of the same things for years. The Spanish actually copied the French Military, for centuries the Frenchies even supplied (sold) uniforms and arms to the Spanish.... so the Filipinos copied the Spanish who copied the French I have always wondered why most photographs of Filipino soldiers you see they are wearing very little or no equipment around their waist..... has anyone here ever found a photo of a Filipino soldier carrying a canteen or a haversack? we know they must have drank water back then! or else they would have been dropping by the hundreds on long marches or during long battles from dehydration and heat exhaustion.... was there a system where some soldiers or civilians were designated to deliver water to thirsty troops? or perhaps they did carry more than we have seen in photos.... they just thought it unfashionable to be photographed carrying a water bottle. I can understand why we see very few ammo pouches.... bullets at the outset of war were scarce, often each soldier was issued 10 rounds and instructed to make each one count, 5 rounds fit inside the Mauser, the other five would easily fit in a pocket, so why bother carrying around 3 to 4 empty ammo pouches? I have often wished "had there only been a gun culture in the Philippines like the culture of guns that existed with the Americans during their revolution against England"....... long long before the Wild West days all the way back to the Pilgrims Americans have relied on firearms to simply survive..... hunting, defense against Indians or other bad guys wanting to steal land or claims. So when it came time to fight for our independence our squirrel hunting farmboys were making every shot count.... sure the British had better generals and better military strategy (better everything really) but when you read about the Battle of Bunker Hill you understand the difference a bunch of hunters with rear sights can make against the worlds most impressive military (at the time) This is what happens under any tyranny and this is what the Spanish did to Filipinos during their 300 some years of oppression. NO GUNS ALLOWED VIOLATORS WILL BE SHOT SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN When the people were finally allowed to carry a weapon in opposition to their Spanish slave masters a rifle or pistol of any kind was a complete stranger to the average Pinoy. The rear sights had been removed by the Spanish, this was done for all Native troops serving under Spain in order to help nuetralize an uprising, this practice goes all the way back to the 1860s, and also I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Spanish were removing the sights before surrendering their rifles.
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Post by RayAdillO on Sept 28, 2007 3:55:05 GMT -5
I LOVE THIS THREAD... great job Ray-adillo I have been wondering many of the same things for years. The Spanish actually copied the French Military, for centuries the Frenchies even supplied (sold) uniforms and arms to the Spanish.... so the Filipinos copied the Spanish who copied the French Hello Faustino Yes, I can see your point. I realize now that the Spanish did use French rifle drill after seeing a photo of Spanish troops shouldering arms but still using the old Remington rollingblock. Rollingblock rifles in French shoulder arms But by the time the Spanish adopted the Mauser in 1893, they began to model their army on the Prussian example. Here is a print of Spanish soldiers in Puerto Rico marching trough the streets of San Juan at the start of the Span-Am War in 1898. A rather well accoutered Filipino rifle "company" Note even as they have mausers, they still retained French style of shoudering arms. I guess most mid 19th century armies tended to follow the French model because of the Napoleonic Wars where it was reckoned the French were the best military experts of the age. The Spanish Army was one of those which followed suit. But by the end of the Franco-Prussian War in 1870, the German expertise in all things military began to supplant the previous admration for the French. I have yet to even see pictures of high ranking Filipino offficers carrying water canteens. It just wasn't in the inventory. It may be that Filipinos troops had the advantage of fighting in their own territory and therfore had enjoyed better cooperation from civilians volunteers to do non-frontline services for the war effort such as distributing water to combatants, no cups or canteen..probably just a swig from clay jug passed along the line. Also, Filipinos may have been less particular about from where they drink their water because their stomachs were more acclimatized to the local water. Whereas most of the Spanish, and certainly most of the Americans whould have succumbed to "deli-belly". There are some Filipino soldiers that have a complete set-up of pouches and leather accoutrements, it's just that rarely is a whole formation so uniformly and adequately equipped. But I suspect that even with a complete ammo pouch set, these would almost never have been filled with ammunition rounds.
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Post by faustino on Oct 2, 2007 21:28:35 GMT -5
A rather well accoutered Filipino rifle "company" Note even as they have mausers, they still retained French style of shoudering arms. Wow!... notice most of these soldiers are wearing the Spanish 1896 pattern Mauser cartridge pouches but without the large extra ammo pouch with carrying strap.... just imagine this was all state of the art equipment back then.
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dober
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by dober on Jul 16, 2008 5:21:31 GMT -5
I can understand why we see very few ammo pouches.... bullets at the outset of war were scarce, often each soldier was issued 10 rounds and instructed to make each one count, 5 rounds fit inside the Mauser, the other five would easily fit in a pocket, so why bother carrying around 3 to 4 empty ammo pouches? Hi! Dont know if these would apply to your earlier statement...cheers!
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Post by insurrectomad on Feb 28, 2009 8:46:42 GMT -5
The lack of water canteens worn by Fil. soldiers may be due to their following the practice in Europe in the 17th, 18th, & 19th cent. of having designated water-carriers in support of the front-line The French Army had female Canteenerie in their own uniforms. one was assigned to each comp. even during the 1854 Baliclaver War. Behind every Fil. rifleman stood a few Bolo-men. European women carried water in buckets and barrels hanging from a milk maids yoke across her shoulders. Later wine barrels with shoulders straps napsack fashion was used. Officers in the British army relied upon their batman, aid-de-corp to supply their wants at all times! Have you seen any photo of Spanish officers with a canteen. During a Nato exercise in the 1960's a batt. of GI's fell apart after 2 days when the "Ruskies" (British SAS & Paras) got behind their lines and Salted all the mobile water trucks. with mobile refrigerated trucks loaded with Cola bottles the Yanks saw no need to fill their canteens.
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Post by Rayadillo on Mar 3, 2009 0:50:22 GMT -5
I forgot to ask in last input, where and how can I get a gourd water bottle? I can see some being worn in photos at reenactment events. can anyone help. Does anyone know if there will be any commemoration of the Battle of Calumpit next year (111yrs)? Salute! Insurrectomad
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