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Post by OneZero on Mar 8, 2008 3:18:24 GMT -5
I'm researching about the weapons used by the PS in 1941-42.
So far these are what i've got-
Rifles:
- M1903 Springfield
- M1 Garand
Machine gun and sub machine guns:
- M1928 Thompson
- M1918 BAR - Browning Automatic Rifle (was used in the light machine gun role)
- Lewis Gun or Lewis Automatic Machine Rifle
- Browning M1917 Machine Gun
Pistols:
- 1911 .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol
Is there any more that we can add on this list? How about the M97 Winchester Trench Gun, was it ever issued to the Scouts?
And did the Browning M1919 .30 caliber light machine gun make it in the P.I. in '41 or '42? couldn't find any pics of these being used by the Scouts during that time.
Also, did the BAR used by the Scouts have have bi-pods or not?
some info that i got- In 1922, the M1922 BAR was introduced. This version was equipped with a flanged or finned barrel and side-mounted sling swivel, and was intended for use by the U.S. Cavalry. The M1922 had no bipod as issued, although one could be fitted if desired.
In June 1937, a small number of M1918s were modified to include a spiked bipod attached to the gas cylinder and a hinged buttplate. These weapons were designated M1918A1.
In 1940, the final BAR model—the M1918A2—was introduced. The (unspiked) bipod was now attached to the barrel, a flash hider was added, a rear monopod was hinged to the butt, and the weapon's role was changed to that of a squad light machinegun.
The bipod and flashhider, being easily removable, were often discarded by troops to save weight and improve the portability of the BAR. In combat, particularly in the Pacific theatre of war, the BAR effectively reverted to its original role as a portable, shoulder-fired automatic rifle.
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Post by legionnaire on Mar 8, 2008 15:19:31 GMT -5
I know they had the air cooled 30 cal mg in the Philippines. 26th had them on their early white scout cars and horses.
The also had the M1-81mm Mortar, the M-3 37mm Anti tank gun.
And don't forget the Bolo knife! ;D
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Post by VeeVee on Mar 8, 2008 19:08:49 GMT -5
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Post by jimmay on Mar 8, 2008 19:17:32 GMT -5
I believed they used the S&W M1917 Revolver at the time; since they had a lot of them after WW1 and chambered in .45 ACP.
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Post by OneZero on Mar 17, 2008 11:17:33 GMT -5
thanks for the info guys!
Can anybody confirm that the Hand Grenades used by the PS were colored 'yellow' ?
And about the M97 Winchester 'Trench Gun', was it ever issued to the Scouts?
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Post by VeeVee on Mar 17, 2008 11:59:48 GMT -5
I think the trench gun was re-introduced later in the war when they realized it would be handy in the kind of fighting that was being waged in the islands of the pacific. I'm not sure they were standard issue especially early in the war. Just gleaning information from this link: sangamoncorifleassociation.org/phildavis/Winchestermodel1897.htmlAs far the grenades, I will confirm but as far as I know they were indeed all yellow. Then they realized it was too visible when thrown and the enemy could find them easily and throw them back. After that they just painted a yellow band on it later into the war. I would think the grenades they had in Bataan were all yellow. here's a picture of one: www.pacificghosts.com/guadalcanal/weapons/usmc/grenade_thumb.html
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Post by stenotholus on Mar 19, 2008 15:39:37 GMT -5
The notion of yellow hand grenades seemed rather strange to me, so I asked a few people about it. One 31st Inf (US) veteran said he never saw a yellow grenade. The ones they had were WWI issue and 60% were duds. An American veteran of the 45th Inf (PS) said all he saw or used were brown or dark brown. Another veteran, not of WWII, said yellow grenades were used in training to distinguish live explosives from dummies. He suggested that training grenades may have been pressed into service.
Regards, Jim
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Post by VeeVee on Mar 19, 2008 22:13:24 GMT -5
Thanks for that information Jim. Will take note.
I can't remember which book mentioned this... but they did have newer grenades in Bataan. I read from a personal account that he sorted through his bag of grenades and picked out the new ones because the old WWI ones were almost always duds. I don't recall that there was a mention of what the color was.
-victor
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Post by OneZero on Mar 21, 2008 10:43:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the input Jim! Like what VeeVee said, I also read that info about the 'yellow being too visible' in some book before (maybe Osprey) so they changed the color and just retained a yellow band. But if the Veterans say they've seen 'brown' or 'dark brown', then there you go. Some reference photos here- i saw these photos in ebay about a couple of weeks ago, it says WW1 Grenade- im not sure if the color at the grooves are hints of 'yellow' or it used to be 'yellow' or it could just be rust, but the body color looks like a 'brown' to 'dark brown' color which may be the color of the metal used.
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kalbs
History Buff
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Post by kalbs on Mar 29, 2008 9:35:49 GMT -5
I found this blurb on the web. Maybe the Shotgun was more common in the Philippines than we thought. "... The shotgun is not a new man-killing arrangement. For years, the sawed-off shotgun has been the favorite weapon of the American really out gunning for the other fellow or expecting the other fellow to come a-gunning for him. Despite the well-known effectiveness of shotguns for certain situations, the first procurement of shotguns specifically for combat use by the U.S. military did not occur until the dawn of the 20th century. Circa 1900, the U.S. Army purchased an estimated 200 Winchester Model of 1897 slide-action repeating shotguns for use in the on-going pacification campaigns in the Philippine Islands following the Spanish-American War of 1898. There was a clear need for an arm to help battle the fierce Moro tribesmen, who were exacting a deadly toll on American troops in close-quarters combat. It was recognized that a short-barreled, 12-ga. shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot was the most formidable tool available for such applications. These sawed off shotguns soon proved their mettle and were used with notable effectiveness in the Philippines. " This is the Link: en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/u-s-army-special-1.htm
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Post by VeeVee on Mar 29, 2008 14:27:15 GMT -5
Thanks for that info. I'll see if I can ask some vets about the grenade and the shotgun.
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kalbs
History Buff
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Post by kalbs on Mar 29, 2008 22:55:34 GMT -5
According to GI Issue, Collectors Guide, page 100 it states the following for the MK II A1: " The MKII grenade body was painted yellow early in the war, and painted or repainted in olive drab for camouflage purposes as of mid-1942. The yellow band left on the body just under the fuse identified an explosive device."Also see this link for more detail: www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa2/index.htmlSo reading this i would assume all WW1 vintage MKI's were olive and MKII's were yellow prior to 1942 and with that said there could have been a mix of olive and yellow MKII's during the Philippine conflict.
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Post by OneZero on Mar 30, 2008 9:00:10 GMT -5
Great find kalbs!
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Post by VeeVee on Apr 2, 2008 10:28:11 GMT -5
Okay I heard back from Capt. Fernandez. He said their grenades were brown, and that they didn't get issued shotguns. They did use a shotgun for hunting monkeys to eat. It was "requisitioned" from a civilian.
So I guess the shotgun was not part of their T.O. & E. (table of organization and equipment).
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Post by milspec on May 20, 2008 21:27:51 GMT -5
Greetings gentlemen, Here's a nice picture of what looks like a Filipino soldier wearing US uniform and equipment aiming an M1928A1. The M1928A1 looks like it has a leather sling and a 20 round magazine. The Halftrack "Jap-Jabber" in the background looks like an M2 Halftrack. Its odd that he doesn't seem to be wearing any leggings. This picture was allegedly taken at Fort Knox, Kentucky. Browning M1917 with tripod. Carl Mydans Photo 37mm Anti-tank gun Fort McKinley milspec
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av8tor
History Buff
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Post by av8tor on Jun 19, 2008 23:23:19 GMT -5
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av8tor
History Buff
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Post by av8tor on Jun 20, 2008 11:43:24 GMT -5
Philip and Gil,
Do you think we can get one in time for Fort MacArthur reenactment? ;D
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Post by legionnaire on Jun 20, 2008 13:14:53 GMT -5
I know one guy who has one and I will try and see if we can borrow it fro him.
Philip
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Post by eljefe on Sept 16, 2008 17:34:54 GMT -5
If you add artillery here is a list:
155mm M1917/18 GPF guns - 86th F.A. (PS) - 16 guns. 75mm (ex Brit 18-pounder) FA guns - 88th F.A. , 24th FA PS Vicker 2.95-inch mountain guns - before they were transferred to P.A. units.
91st and 92nd CA (PS) also trained in old Benet Mercier MGs and may still have had a few in service during the war.
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MTBS 3
New Member
SENTRIES OF THE NAVY!
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Post by MTBS 3 on Aug 5, 2012 22:01:38 GMT -5
The thing is on the M-1 Rifles... is that IF you plan on doing it right... you'd have to carry the "gas trap" variant of the M-1 Rifle because thats what was issued out in the Philippines. There are conversion kits out there but, they aren't cheap unfortunately. Regards, MTBS 3
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