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Post by VeeVee on Jul 27, 2009 15:35:34 GMT -5
Hi Okla, You got me... I don't think I know that patch you were describing. It could have been exactly as you're guessing... some locally made memento for sewing into hats, jackets, and other things. I'll watch out for something like it.
Bulikiti, I think the 43rd Inf. Reg. PS was splintered off from the 45th Infantry, to be made into a full infantry regiment later on. I think its different companies were scattered both in North Luzon and in Mindanao during the war and never fought in Bataan. I need to check my references...
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Post by oklahoma on Jul 27, 2009 16:51:20 GMT -5
hey vic...the strength and composition of us army troops in philippine islands, 31 july 1941 lists the 43rd infantry (phil scouts) as having a strength of 16 officers (US) and 313 enlisted (scouts). very understrength regiment. something is amiss here. wonder if they ever fought as the 43rd???o.k., i just answered my own question (at least partially). two companies of the 43rd were with the 102nd PA div on mindanao as you stated previously, but were going to verify. i guess, technically, these two companies constituted a "regiment". there was an american unit in shanghai just prior to the war that was officially labeled as being a regiment and had even fewer troops than that of the 43rd. cant remember the numerical designation, but this unit was an old time, regular US army regiment. maybe the 3rd infantry????just cant remember. it was pulled out of china prior to hostilities. lucky for them, i would say. anyhow, methinks we can all agree that the 43rd really didnt get off the ground and make a famous name for itself as did the 26th cav, 45th inf and the 57th inf. methinks, we also tend to forget the scout field artillery units. they deserve heaps of credit also. i am just "big" on the philippine scouts, whatever the particular unit's branch...cav, inf, artillery. they were all scouts and thats good enough for me. methinks also thats enough methinks for one afternoon (its afternoon at my house in tulsa). good talking to you again.
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Post by oklahoma on Jul 28, 2009 15:50:11 GMT -5
hey vic....concerning the 43rd PS. you are absolutely correct about the 43rd being "splintered" off the 45th PS. according to morton in the "fall of the philippines" the 43rd had units in zamboanga in mindanao and camp john hay in luzon. evidently, the john hay group DID actually fight on the abucay line, if i read the account of the abucay action correctly. take a gander at morton and tell us what you think. i am sure, by now that you have already boned up on this whole question. i want the 43rd guys (who had to give up their proud 45th PS identity to receive their just deserts. if they were on the abucay line we ought to tell the world. the bunch down on mindinao were exposed to jap fire also and did themselves proud, i am sure. go scouts.
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Post by VeeVee on Jul 29, 2009 7:34:32 GMT -5
I've been busy lately and haven't had the chance to brush up on the 43rd. Thanks for confirming what I could remember off the top of my head. I didn't know the 43rd fought on the Abucay line. I wonder if they were attached back to the 45th since the 45th was significantly under strength at that time. I'll look into it.
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Post by oklahoma on Jul 29, 2009 13:32:13 GMT -5
hey vic...the battle reports at abucay are confusing me big time, but in my copy of morton (its a reprint and the page numbers may vary from the original edition) the 43rd is mentioned as being up to their eyeballs in the initial breaking or flanking of the abucay line,etc. the index in my copy of morton lists 43rd philippine SCOUT REGIMENT, with pages 271-275 devoted to the abucay line fight. it is confusing to read, as i am sure you are aware, and one might assume that the author is referring to the 43rd PA infantry regiment, but the index clearly lists the unit as the 43rd PS infantry. they may well have been hooked back up with the 45th PS as they and the 31st US were heavily engaged at this sector at abucay. i now withdraw from this phase of the abucay line and place this question in your most capable hands. stuff like this runs me nuts, but aint it fun? ? have at it. postscript...in reading my immediately preceding posts i noticed that i mentioned to you that it was afternoon in tulsa when i posted, forgetting mementarily that you live in philly, not manila. forgive my ignorance. not nearly the time difference as i for a moment was thinking. lay it on to advancing senility. at 77 years of age, as of last friday, i am starting to lose IT.
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Post by johnbryan on Jul 29, 2009 14:45:49 GMT -5
Happy belated Birthday, Oklahoma! My Dad turns 77 tomorrow. You're not getting senile and you're still as sharp as a tack historywise. Continue to stay active and read voraciously and you'll be alive and kicking for a long time yet!
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Post by oklahoma on Jul 29, 2009 18:20:54 GMT -5
hey john....thanks for the birthday wishes. i like to think if i keep the gray matter occupied that, in fact, it does have a beneficial effect. i read all the time, being a member of the military book club and the history book club. the last fiction i devoured was "from here to eternity", but even that novel was based on history. you might say that i have a one track mind, although i do find time to follow the fortunes of the st louis cardinals and my old alma mater, oklahoma state university. again, many thanks for the b'day wishes.
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Post by johnbryan on Jul 29, 2009 19:23:30 GMT -5
James Jones is one of my all time favorite authors and From Here to Eternity one of my favorite books. Did you ever see the mini-series on tv with Natalie Wood? She was one smoking hot lady!
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Post by oklahoma on Jul 29, 2009 21:33:09 GMT -5
hey john....you betcha. i have it and used to view it periodically here at home. in fact, i think the TV version is better than the original screen production. my college room mate was stationed at schofield barracks for 32 months back in the mid 1950s and he said that the first thing a new soldier assigned to his unit did was ask for directions to the "new congress hotel". of course, james jones used a fictional name in his classic. i think the real item was called the "new senate hotel", i may have the names reversed, but you get my drift. now, i have a question for you. i'm thinking that sergeant warden's outfit that he saw service with in china would be the "thirsty first" infantry (US) that was pulled up to shanghai from the philippines when they had the troubles there in the early 1930s. whatcha think? that's what i was referring to when i said that "from here to eternity" is almost real instead of fiction. based so much on real history that it comes to life.
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Post by johnbryan on Jul 30, 2009 10:03:48 GMT -5
hey john....you betcha. i have it and used to view it periodically here at home. in fact, i think the TV version is better than the original screen production. my college room mate was stationed at schofield barracks for 32 months back in the mid 1950s and he said that the first thing a new soldier assigned to his unit did was ask for directions to the "new congress hotel". of course, james jones used a fictional name in his classic. i think the real item was called the "new senate hotel", i may have the names reversed, but you get my drift. now, i have a question for you. i'm thinking that sergeant warden's outfit that he saw service with in china would be the "thirsty first" infantry (US) that was pulled up to shanghai from the philippines when they had the troubles there in the early 1930s. whatcha think? that's what i was referring to when i said that "from here to eternity" is almost real instead of fiction. based so much on real history that it comes to life. The Warden's outfit in China could have also been the 15th US Infantry Regiment, although the "Thirsty-First is a good bet as well. The 15th was pulled out of China in 1938.
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Post by oklahoma on Jul 30, 2009 10:19:26 GMT -5
hey john....i had forgotten the numerical designation of the 15th, but somewhere i had read that the US Army pulled a drastically understrength regiment out of china pre-war (prewar for the US anyhow) that was really only at company strength. that must have been the one i read about. probably only in china for ceremonial/etc purposes. wouldnt have been much good against the Japanese invaders in north china at that point anyhow. now the 4th marines, who we all know came out in late 1941 just before pearl harbor, were closer to combat level requirements. i have always wondered "what if" they had remained on bataan as one of the front line units with the philippine division (instead of being removed to corregidor) how they would have faired. might have prolonged the fight, but in the end methinks the result would have been the same. i would imagine, though, that many more of the enemy would have gone home in those little cartons that the japanese transported remains of their slain warriors in.
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Post by VeeVee on Jul 30, 2009 10:39:07 GMT -5
Hi Okla -- yes belated happy birthday!
The more I think about the 43rd Infantry in Abucay... the more I'm thinking the books are referring to the PA regiment. I'll check my books...
I think the regiment John is talking about is in the book The Regulars. I'll check that too.
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Post by DAN BULAKENO on Sept 8, 2009 22:12:43 GMT -5
refresh the page for refs here in manila.tnx!
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Post by friscohare on Sept 10, 2010 14:17:17 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I was wondering, does a physical, metal 43rd Infantry Regiment DI exist?
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Post by VeeVee on Sept 11, 2010 8:30:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure. I think Pac_Bob from the US Militaria forum would know for sure. However my guess is they didn't have one. The 43rd was a relatively recent splinter from the 45th Infantry before the war and may not have had a DI yet. Just like how the 88th FA didn't have one because it was a breakaway unit from one of the scout FA units.
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Post by jdub19 on Jul 25, 2011 21:14:46 GMT -5
I am looking for any information relating to my grandfather, Vincente Ebol Gepte... he was a Capt. that went to West Point and returned to the PI to fight the war... we was caught by the J's a coupel times, escaped, and eventually was beheaded the the J's...
In 1996, I and my family were guests of Fidel Ramos, to be presnted the Legion of Honor on my grandfathers behalf.
I am looking for anyone that may have served with him, known him from battle, or from behind the scenes fighting the war...he was executed with a couple other people that ran a resistance out of the Cosmopolitan Church of Manila..
My goal is to gather as much info that there is and eventually tell the story of my grandfather...a truly heroic Filipino..
Thanks
JW
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Post by oklahoma on Jul 26, 2011 14:52:08 GMT -5
Hey jdub....You must be awfully proud of this man. Hope you track down somebody who knew/served with your Grandfather. These types are getting fewer by the year, unfortunately, and are not being replaced, unfortunately, also. Cheers.
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Post by frank on Jul 26, 2011 21:22:23 GMT -5
I am looking for any information relating to my grandfather, Vincente Ebol Gepte... he was a Capt. that went to West Point and returned to the PI to fight the war... we was caught by the J's a couple times, escaped, and eventually was beheaded the the J's... My goal is to gather as much info that there is and eventually tell the story of my grandfather...a truly heroic Filipino.. Thanks JW Could you post what photos or records you would like to share? Year he graduated from USMA, Last unit he served with when the war started. Where he was executed and buried. etc. This gets people interested. And prompts responses.
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Post by cbuehler on Jan 8, 2012 17:23:53 GMT -5
The 31st Infantry (Manila's Own) based at Fort Santiago Intramuros did wear the Philippine Division Carabao patch until 1930 or so. After that, they were assigned to the Philippine Department and wore the usual white sealion on blue oval as did the 26th Cavalry and all of the PS Coast Artillery regiments. Their distictive insignia was and still is the the Polar Bear over the motto "Pro Patria" which was granted for service in Siberia at the close of ww1. The Philippine Dept. was a Corps level organization (hence the blue and white colors of the patch). The Philippine Division was its main component.
Conrad
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Post by insurrectomad on Jan 19, 2012 2:58:04 GMT -5
A new book is out called "The Twilight Riders" - Last charge of the U.S. 26th Cav. by Peter S. Stevens. A must read !!! I have just finished reading it, and ever a book of the Bataan Campaign should be made into a film, then this is the one! Check it out on facebook.com. The detail of information supplied first hand from surviving Vets to the author and their love for their horses is very touching. If you only buy one book this year, then make sure it's this one! In the book it states most 26th Cav. riders refused to eat horse flesh and eat any other meat that was spare.
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