Bayonet/dagger. Help with identification.

[murena]

Hi to all,

I am new member.
I cannot define what dagger is this. Some people say that it is plug bayonet for blunderbuss, others that it is Philippines dagger. Maybe anyone have exact information of this item. Please help me to define it. Thanks.

[VeeVee]

Welcome to the forum. I don't know myself but I'm sure Robert Coleman would have some info for you

[Robert Coleman]

VeeVee,
I thank you for your confidence in me but the fact remains that there are quite a few more knowledgeable individuals on this forum than me. That aside I will tell you my impression of this dagger. I do not believe that this is a plug bayonet, the hilt is all wrong for that, nor from the Philippines. I do however believe that it is Spanish and more than likely either from Albacete or the surrounding area. As for the age, because of the poor condition and the picture quality, I would have to guess that it could be from anywhere between the late 19th to the first quarter of the 20th century? I hope that this is of some help to you. Jose, Lorenz, Kevin, would you mind giving your thoughts on this dagger please? ;D


Robert

[murena]

Thanks Robert. I would like to present the additional information on this dagger.

I live in Lithuania. During my business trip in the UK the partner (knowing my hobby in collecting antique things) has presented to me this dagger.
This item (and others which I saw) has been found in the wall when partner made reconstruction of the own old house. Certainly I cannot confirm it, but I think that to the partner there was no sense to speak not the truth.
The handle of this item is wooden (therefore it quality is poor); at the beginning and in the end of handle are brass covers. The expert of the Historical Military Museum (Lithuania) in the catalogue has found very similar dagger and it has been defined as plug bayonet for pistol and is dated the 17th C – 18th C, England. It did not intend for military operations and was used for hunt or police functions only. I have received the same information from Russian experts but around there are also other opinions that deny it. There is opinion that it is from Philippines. Due to this reason I have addressed at this forum. I understand that on the basis of the pictures it is difficult to make the exact answer. Thanks once again, I also doubted that the dagger from Philippines. I think that the exact answer will be very difficult for finding but that it is plug bayonet is more possible for defining.

[Robert Coleman]

Hello Murena,
Although this does resemble one it is still my opinion that this is not a plug bayonet but a dagger. On all of the plug bayonets that I have ever seen the swell (on this one the wooden part of the grip) was placed well forward towards the guard on the hilt. This made it possible for more of the grip to slide into the barrel of the weapon and made for a more secure and stable fit. On your example the swell is centered on the handle which would make for a more secure grip when being held in ones hand but a less than desirable one if inserted into a barrel. One other thing that makes me think it was not made to be a bayonet is the ferrule at the end of the grip. It would come into contact with the inside of the bore and could easily become jammed and could then pull off when trying to remove the bayonet from the barrel. Again on all of the bayonets that I have seen the part of the hilt that comes into contact with the bore is made of wood. This is only my opinion and if I am wrong it would not be the first time. Here are two examples of plug bayonets. As soon as I find one of the style of dagger that I think this might be I will post it too.

[Robert Coleman]

Hello Murena,
As promised an Albacete dagger. I hope that this helps.
Regards,
Robert

[murena]

Hello Robert,
Wow! You are right in definition it is very similar to the Albacete dagger. At last I have more clear answer.

Thanks a lot Robert.

Regards,
Murena

[Robert Coleman]

I'm happy that I could be of some assistance to you on this.

Regards,
Robert

[murena]

Hello Robert,

I am presenting the pictures of bayonet after restoration.

During the restoration has been decided to restore the wooden part anew from an oak. It’s toning under the original from 100 % compatibility of color and techniques of that time.

Thank you.

Regards,
Murena